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Talibanization, Talibanize

Urdu translation: Talibansaazi, Talibanana

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:Talibanization, Talibanize
Urdu translation:Talibansaazi, Talibanana
Entered by: Basit Ijaz

21:06 Apr 3, 2007
English to Urdu translations [PRO]
Government / Politics
English term or phrase: Talibanization, Talibanize
Dear Fellow Translators Please give me One Word Translation of each term.
Basit Ijaz
Pakistan
Local time: 23:24
Talibansaazi
Explanation:
I think the word "Taliban-saazi" may fit both the terms since both suggest 'an organization on the pattern of the Taliban thinking.'

The term "Talibaniyat" is ok, but it sounds much more passive than the source term.

I personally don't like the source terms. I think they are very unsophisticated and lazy terms, poorly describing a complex phenomenon. Something on the lines of "Intehaa parasti" or "Taliban-tarz (or Taliban-numa) inteha pasarsti" would have been much more appropriate.

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Note added at 17 hrs (2007-04-04 14:26:46 GMT)
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Some references to the usage of the source terms:

'Talibanization' fears in Pakistan:

www.csmonitor.com/2005/0413/p06s01-wosc.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The 'Talibanization' of Bangladesh:

www.thenation.com/doc/20020527/baldwin20020517
---------------------------------------------------------------------

" As some of the Iraqi resistance clearly wanted to Talibanize Falluja (and other cities in the Sunni heartland), so now it seems Americans want to create their own fantasy city along more familiarly Western and technological but no less draconian lines."

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&Ite...
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Note added at 3 days47 mins (2007-04-06 21:53:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This is in reply to:

"basit: Suggestion - Friends...we can extend this prb to all the terms with "ization" and "ize", such as Democractization, Democratize, Politicization, Politicize. What if we add "انا" for "ization" and "ایت" for "ize", like طالبنانا for Talibanization."

Both "iyat" and "ana" endings (e.g. 'Jamhooriat' and 'Jamhoorana'), mean "something on the pattern of" or "on the principles of" etc. whereas "zation" and "ize" mean that something which has been "changed to" or "organized on" or "made into" the pattern of the root word.

E.g. "Jamhooriat" means 'Democracy', but NOT 'Democratization'
"Jamhoorana" means 'Democratic' but NOT 'Democratize'

By the way, 'ize' is for verbs, and 'zation' is for nouns.

I said earlier that "Talibaniyat" was an ok translation, but passive. I take my statement back. "Talibaniyat" is an INCORRECT translation of the word "Talibanization"

In order to give a correct translation one needs to understand what is actually being said in the source language first.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days1 hr (2007-04-06 22:55:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In reply to:
"basit: more suggestion - not Jumhoorana but Jumhooriyana"

You're right. That was my mistake. Thank you for pointing it out.
Selected response from:

Qudsia Lone
United States
Local time: 14:24
Grading comment
Thank you for taking pains. But I would like to add one more thing is Talibansaazi only refer to People but Talibanization or To Talibanize alludes to all aspects of life, political, social, educational i.e. building these institutions on Taliban's thought pattern. Keeping this in mind I used Talibanana or Talibaniyat on couple of occasion. So we can to Democratize or Democratization.

Thank You Again.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 -1Talibaniyat, Talibaniyat Karna
Ramesh Bhatt
5 -3Mahzabitulaba (males) or Mahzabitalbat (females)
Zarin Khan
4 -2talibanization, talibanize
Kamran Nadeem
4 -2Talibansaazi
Qudsia Lone


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -3
talibanization, talibanize
Mahzabitulaba (males) or Mahzabitalbat (females)


Explanation:
The term Talibanization has been derived from Urdu/Arabic term Tablib which means students in English Language. All the students studying in Islamic Religious Institutions are called Talib and, therefore, after linking student with religious studies, in a specific religious environment, the term Mahzabitulaba or Mauzabitalabat has been derived.

Zarin Khan
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:24
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in UrduUrdu, Native in PunjabiPunjabi

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Qudsia Lone: The meaning of "Talibanization/Talibanize" is to "make or orgaznize on the pattern of Taliban" irrespective of what "Taliban" means. Also, this translation does not convey the clearly 'implied' meaning of "Taliban" in the source terms.
7 hrs
disagree  Mohammad Adn (X): This translation is absolutely wrong!!
7 hrs
disagree  Kamran Nadeem: This is an example of wrong translation. I am surprised that this gentleman does not know the Kudoz rules. He disagreed with all the previously given translation without mentioning any reason and himself given a totally wrong reply to this question.
8 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -2
talibanization, talibanize
talibanization, talibanize


Explanation:
Well!! Here is the situation as you are aware of the fact that Urdu is a kind of mixture of Hindi, Farsi, Arabic and other languages. English, too, have a vital and dominant influence on Urdu vocabulary. As Urdu adopted Farsi and Arabic Verbs and nouns and used it in the grammatical perspective of Hindi. The same is the case with English words take the example of a common English Word “Bore” in our common and even verbal conversation we normally use the word “Boriyat’ (Being bored). The same case is with Talibanization, Talibanize. Anyhow if you want to know the ‘real meanings’ of Talibanization you may read this latest news about the abduction of three women by ‘Hardcore female religious activists’ in Islamabad. You may use the following link to read the story and the links, but I am sure you must be fully aware of this story.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2007/03/070329_sham...


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Note added at 17 hrs (2007-04-04 14:29:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It is very Simple Bhatti Saheb, If you see Boreyat, it consists of One English word ‘Bore’ and other “yat’ of Urdu, if you see talibanization it also consists of one Urdu word “Taliban’ and other English Word ization. So please avoid criticisms for the sake of criticisim and try to follow and understand the things.

Kamran Nadeem
United States
Local time: 14:24
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in UrduUrdu, Native in PunjabiPunjabi

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Zarin Khan: Disagree
5 hrs
  -> Please let me know the reasons or you are simply "DISAGREE"?
disagree  Qudsia Lone: You have not given a translation of the terms. These terms cannot be used in Urdu as are because the endings "zation" and "ize" do not sit well in Urdu. In the term "Boriyat" the ending "iyat" is what makes the term an Urdu one.
13 hrs
  -> Mr. Bhatti!! I think you MIGHT be aware of Urdu language a little bit and know that a lot of words are easy to use than it's translation. If I say 'Ehsaayiay' probably you do not know what it is, as it is very commonly used.
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -2
talibanization, talibanize
Talibansaazi


Explanation:
I think the word "Taliban-saazi" may fit both the terms since both suggest 'an organization on the pattern of the Taliban thinking.'

The term "Talibaniyat" is ok, but it sounds much more passive than the source term.

I personally don't like the source terms. I think they are very unsophisticated and lazy terms, poorly describing a complex phenomenon. Something on the lines of "Intehaa parasti" or "Taliban-tarz (or Taliban-numa) inteha pasarsti" would have been much more appropriate.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2007-04-04 14:26:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Some references to the usage of the source terms:

'Talibanization' fears in Pakistan:

www.csmonitor.com/2005/0413/p06s01-wosc.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The 'Talibanization' of Bangladesh:

www.thenation.com/doc/20020527/baldwin20020517
---------------------------------------------------------------------

" As some of the Iraqi resistance clearly wanted to Talibanize Falluja (and other cities in the Sunni heartland), so now it seems Americans want to create their own fantasy city along more familiarly Western and technological but no less draconian lines."

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&Ite...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days47 mins (2007-04-06 21:53:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This is in reply to:

"basit: Suggestion - Friends...we can extend this prb to all the terms with "ization" and "ize", such as Democractization, Democratize, Politicization, Politicize. What if we add "انا" for "ization" and "ایت" for "ize", like طالبنانا for Talibanization."

Both "iyat" and "ana" endings (e.g. 'Jamhooriat' and 'Jamhoorana'), mean "something on the pattern of" or "on the principles of" etc. whereas "zation" and "ize" mean that something which has been "changed to" or "organized on" or "made into" the pattern of the root word.

E.g. "Jamhooriat" means 'Democracy', but NOT 'Democratization'
"Jamhoorana" means 'Democratic' but NOT 'Democratize'

By the way, 'ize' is for verbs, and 'zation' is for nouns.

I said earlier that "Talibaniyat" was an ok translation, but passive. I take my statement back. "Talibaniyat" is an INCORRECT translation of the word "Talibanization"

In order to give a correct translation one needs to understand what is actually being said in the source language first.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days1 hr (2007-04-06 22:55:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In reply to:
"basit: more suggestion - not Jumhoorana but Jumhooriyana"

You're right. That was my mistake. Thank you for pointing it out.

Qudsia Lone
United States
Local time: 14:24
Works in field
Native speaker of: Urdu
PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
Thank you for taking pains. But I would like to add one more thing is Talibansaazi only refer to People but Talibanization or To Talibanize alludes to all aspects of life, political, social, educational i.e. building these institutions on Taliban's thought pattern. Keeping this in mind I used Talibanana or Talibaniyat on couple of occasion. So we can to Democratize or Democratization.

Thank You Again.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Zarin Khan: incorrect interpretation
2 hrs
agree  Ramesh Bhatt
3 hrs
disagree  Mohammad Adn (X): Language cannot be interpreted with the angle of personal liking and disliking.
11 hrs
  -> I agree. But the interpretation I used is exactly according to the context these terms have been used in. My personal choice was described in the explanation, not the target term!
disagree  Kamran Nadeem: I agree with Mr. Mohammed!!
11 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
talibanization, talibanize
Talibaniyat, Talibaniyat Karna


Explanation:
The terms talibanization, talibanize have their source in Urdu, hence It will be better to use the Urdu term itself for the English derivative terms.
Other words in Urdu could be: Shadid Moutusabaniyat, Shadid Buniyad Parasti, and the Daras or tarbiyat of the same.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2007-04-03 23:17:21 GMT)
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Hamaray bachoon ki talibaniyat ki ja rahee hay. Zindigi bar ous ki talibaniyat ki gayee.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2007-04-04 06:06:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Zarin Khan's term is the best in my opinion. Taliban-saazi, yes. That is appropriate for Talibanisation; and Taliban-saazi Karna for the Talibanize.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2007-04-04 06:09:02 GMT)
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Oh! I'm sorry! It is Qudsia Lone actually who has coined the term Taliban-saazi, not Zarin Khan.

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Note added at 3 days7 hrs (2007-04-07 04:57:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Friends!
The controversy the term has generated is welcome. For result will emerge from the controversy.
One thing I would like to add here is: "Talibanisation is not related just to a particular sect of people. Taliban are present in every place of the world. Hindu Taliban, Muslim Taliban, Christian Taliban. Democratic Taliban, Human Rights' Taliban, etc., Bush and Blaire are the biggest Taliban in the world. Talibanisation has to be secular term therefore---i.e. related to all the religious and capitalist fanatics of the world. I think Qudsia Lone's Taliban-saazi, or Taliban-kaari can be better expressions for Talibanisation.
Basit's suggestion "Talibaniyana" doesn't seem good to the Urdu tongue's beauty. However, I don't find any technical defect with that term.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days7 hrs (2007-04-07 05:00:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Zarin Khan is completely off the track.

Example sentence(s):
  • Shadid Moutusabaniyat, Shadid Buniyad Parasti, and the Daras or tarbiyat of the same.
Ramesh Bhatt
Nepal
Local time: 00:09
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in UrduUrdu, Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Zarin Khan: incorrect interpretation
6 hrs
disagree  Qudsia Lone: "Talibaniyat" would mean "on the pattern/principles of Taliban", But "Talibanization" means "change/d into (or organize/d into) the pattern/principles of Taliban". please see note in reply to questioner's new comment in my answer for detailed description.
2 days 22 hrs
agree  Ashar: I was reading various comments with interest. For me, there is a difference between طالبانیت (Talibanism) and طالبانائیت (Talibanizing). I'd have used these terms.
7 days
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