This site uses cookies.
Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site,
while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used.
For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
French to English translations [PRO] History / Marc Bloch
French term or phrase:qu'il sera trouvera proposer à
Hello again,
I am not too sure what this is getting at. This is a text written by Marc Bloch on American research of certain Italian archives.
L'effort des chercheurs américains - dont on peut être sûr, à l'avance, qu'il sera consciencieusement et intelligemment mené - méritera d'être suivi de près, non seulement à cause des résultats positifs qu'il ne peut manquer de donner, mais aussi par la solution qu'il se trouvera proposer à un très grave probleme d'exploitation documentaire.
Explanation: I understand "se trouvera proposer", not "sera trouvera" which is meaningless
I read "l'effort.... se trouvera" in continuity wilth "ne peut manquer de donner": "will for sure result into", then with a bit less confidence "se trouvera proposer": the effort will most likely lead to a position to suggest a solution, although the author of the sentence does not dare to be absolutely positive about that.
seems to be bad French to me. Which doesn't mean that some poor s0d doesn't have to interpret it. But with illiterate stuff it may possibly not matter than much *how* you interpret it...
Not too sure; for one thing, there are 2 'no doubts'; and for another because you have introduced a causal connection with 'because' that is not there in the original, where the 'thoroughness...' bit is parenthetic... while you have left out the nice notion of 'worth keeping a close eye on...'
"There is no doubt that the American researchers will be rigourous and intelligent in their undertaking, not only because of the positive results they will obtain, but also because of the solution they will no doubt come up with to a very serious problem of how best to exploit the documentary sources".
I think your rendering of "se trouvera proposer" is pretty much what it means in practice. It must be the use of se trouver + inf. meaning "to happen to do...", "to turn out to do...": something along those lines. As the Trésor puts it (referring to avoir and être, but going on to say that it's also done with other verbs):
"Se trouver avoir/être. Avoir, être par un concours fortuit de circonstances."
So I think it means: it will so happen that the effort of the American researchers will come up with a solution, they will turn out to come up with a solution (those are not translation suggestions as such).
The "très grave problème d'exploitation documentaire" refers to the fact that this is about an absolutely vast body of material, 150 volumes of account books of the Medicis dating from 1406-1697. Putting all this into a form in which it can be used [bnefore the age of computers and databases] was an immense practical problem, but Bloch thought the Americans would find a way. Here's the source: http://www.persee.fr/doc/ahess_0003-441x_1929_num_1_3_1104
Yes, "are likely to" with the question mark was a sort of afterthought and not that accurate nor useful a suggestion indeed! "Bound to" is good.
Further, I found it odd that there is "a" very serious problem of, etc. and not "the" very serious problem. I'd honestly have expected the definite and not the indefinite article there, more for reasons of emphasis than aything else. It can be definite and yet be one among a certain number. It seems to be pinpointing the nature of the problem and I'd have epxetced "the".
Finally, with regards to the meaning of "exploitation documentaire", I'd need to see more context to understand how it is to be read here. It may be about how it is best to be used. It may also be going so far as to criticise inaccurate use, but maybe also inefficient use, whether consicious or otherwise.
I've been studying a lot recently and with lectures on general and applied epistemology, not to mention sound academic practice, I'm not sure how best to situate the meaning here. No doubt Liz knows.
Your reading is certainly a lot closer to my own instinctive interpretation; just one litte point though, you added "(are likely to?)", but in fact, doesn't the French say 'cannot fail to'? (ne peut manquer) So maybe 'are bound to'?
"There is no doubt that the American researchers will do a conscientious and intelligent job, not only because of the positive results they will (are likely to?) obtain, but also because of the solution they will no doubt come up with to a very serious problem of documentary exploitation."
I would approve your translation, Liz but perhaps you could wait for other answers to see if they corroborate the idea or if they differ from it? Would it feasible for you?
My effort: One could be sure, in advance, that the American researchers’ effort would be conscientiously and intelligently led and would warrant close monitoring, not just because of the positive results this would doubtlessly give, but also by the solution this could provide to a very serious problem of documentary exploitation.
I would rephrase it as follows: "L'effort des chercheurs américains - dont on peut être sûr, à l'avance, qu'il sera consciencieusement et intelligemment mené - méritera d'être suivi de près, non seulement à cause des résultats positifs qu'il ne peut manquer de donner, mais aussi par la solution que l'effort proposera à un très grave problème d'exploitation documentaire."
I think that the writer wants to say that a proposition of solution will be made to the effort. "But also by the proposition of a solution that will be made to the effort. This proposition of solution relates to a severe issue of..." I would understand it like this more or less. Please, wait for other answers.
IV. - Nouvelles scientifiques - Persée www.persee.fr/doc/ahess_0003-441x_1929_num_1_3_1104 by M Bloch - 1929 Mais l'essentiel sera évidemment la publication méthodique et exhaustive des ... positifs qu'il ne peut manquer de donner, mais aussi par la solution qu'il se trouvera proposer à un très grave problème d'exploitation documentaire. ..... Parmi les • conditions sociales » dont l'influence s'exerce sur l'habitat, il faut, sans doute, ...
Would not it be rather "se trouvera exposé à un très grave problème documentaire" ?
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
9 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +1
qu\'il sera trouvera proposer à
that will be put forward/suggested
Explanation: but also by the solution that will be put forward to a very serious ...
There's probably a better way of saying this but that's the general gist.
It might have been easier if they had said, "mais aussi par la solution qui sera proposée à un ..."
IMHO
Maria Constant (X) Local time: 14:26 Native speaker of: English
1 hr confidence: peer agreement (net): +1
qu\'il sera trouvera proposer à
that it will eventually suggest
Explanation: I understand "se trouvera proposer", not "sera trouvera" which is meaningless
I read "l'effort.... se trouvera" in continuity wilth "ne peut manquer de donner": "will for sure result into", then with a bit less confidence "se trouvera proposer": the effort will most likely lead to a position to suggest a solution, although the author of the sentence does not dare to be absolutely positive about that.
Didier Fourcot Local time: 14:26 Native speaker of: French PRO pts in category: 3
that it will be in a position to propose to a very serious problem .....
Explanation: Marc Bloch had no doubt about the ability of the American researchers to 'unravel the riddle' (see the source document provided by C. Davis); hence the mention of no nuance of uncertainty in my translation.
Francois Boye United States Local time: 09:26 Native speaker of: French PRO pts in category: 3
Lara Barnett United Kingdom Local time: 13:26 Works in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 8 1 corroborated select project in this pair and field
Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.
You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs
(or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.