corvée de soupe

English translation: soup fatigue

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:corvée de soupe
English translation:soup fatigue
Entered by: Matthew Docherty

06:48 Feb 22, 2017
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - History / First World War
French term or phrase: corvée de soupe
Hello,
I'm translating the caption of this photograph and am looking for a translation of "corvée de soupe":

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b530036818

Many thanks
Matthew Docherty
soup fatigue
Explanation:
It's translated as "soup duty" in a couple of places:

"The work of Jean Droit, which certainly has a pedagogical dimension-La route est repérée (The Road Has Been Located, 1914) and Un 210 éclate (A 210 Explodes)-is similar to Pierre-Albert Leroux's Corvée de soupe (Soup Duty)."
http://www.cheminsdememoire.gouv.fr/en/la-peinture-et-la-gra...

But I think "soup fatigue", used in this text (also translated from French, a text by Henri Barbusse), is probably the authentic term:

"Here, lying across our path, which we are following upwards like a disaster, like a flood of debris beneath the dense sadness of the sky, lies a man who seems to be sleeping; but he is flattened against the ground in the way that distinguishes a dead body from a sleeping one. He was a man on soup fatigue, with his rosary of loaves threaded into a belt and a bunch of his comrades’ mess tins held to his shoulder by a tangle of straps. He must have been hit the previous night, his back holed by a piece of shrapnel. We must be the first to find him: an obscure soldier who died in obscurity."
https://gerryco23.wordpress.com/tag/leslie-norris/

Here it is again, in a contemporary account:

"It was in the Thiescourt Woods, I remember, that I saw Alan on his return from convalescent leave. My section was in first line trenches and his, in reserve, in the second line. I was on soup fatigue and was going to the Chalffour Quarry when I saw him in front of me, walking along alone."
True Stories of the Great War, 278
https://archive.org/details/truestoriesofgre05mill

"3 (fatigues) Menial non-military tasks performed by a soldier, sometimes as a punishment."
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/fatigue

It's not necessarily a punishment (and presumably isn't here); it's a menial but necessary task soldiers have to perform (when it's their turn).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2017-02-22 08:23:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

That account I cited on the death of the American poet Alan Seeger is actually also translated from French; it is by his companion Bif Bear, a young Egyptian. However, the translation is contemporaneous and probably uses authentic terminology; it was published in the New York newspaper The Sun in 1916:
http://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lccn/sn83030431/1916-10-15/...

Here's the expression used in an account by an American combatant:

"The strafing of infantry was first thought to involve too great a risk, but eventually it was practiced by both sides. In the American forces the first exponent of this kind of low-altitude fighting was Maj. Elmer Haslett, who broke up a German soup fatigue in a communication trench. This, from a German point of view, was almost as tragic as the battle of Chateau Thierry."
https://archive.org/stream/cu31924030744688#page/n37/mode/2u...

And here's another account in English, by a British PoW in the Second World War, indicating that "fatigue" is probably the term (both for the task and for the party performing it):

"It was hard work, peeling potatoes from 7.30 in morning to 4.30 in the evening but it was worth it as we received a double soup ration and were up to all the dodges of the day sneaking away with a few exlra patatoes. That, however, only lasted a few days for when the
German's [sic] heard that the English were on potato fatigues, they stopped it." (p. 19)
"To make the daily soup, fatigue parties were detailed who used to
gather snow, which was then melted to provide the necessary water for the soup." (p. 65)
http://www.lamsdorf.com/uploads/6/4/2/7/6427590/e._j._lees_2...
Selected response from:

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 16:30
Grading comment
Superb thorough response, many thanks indeed.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +4soup fatigue
Charles Davis
3 +1supply detail
Pierre POUSSIN
4soup chore
Mary Carroll Richer LaFlèche
4soup duty
Nicolas Loisel


  

Answers


33 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
supply detail


Explanation:
"kitchen detail" est la "corvée aux cuisines", le transport en première ligne pourrait peut-être être e que je suggère. Mais je n'en suis, évidemment, pas très sûr!

Pierre POUSSIN
France
Local time: 16:30
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 24

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  writeaway: detail seems like the right term
3 hrs
  -> Thanks! I am sure about "detail" in this case...

neutral  Mary Carroll Richer LaFlèche: what is this mysterious meaning of "soupe' in French?
5 hrs
  -> Anything from real soup to stew etc... In WW1, most soldiers were countrymen and the typical meal at homme was "soupe". Hence everymeal reaching them in the trenches ...

neutral  philgoddard: Agree with detail, but supply?
6 hrs
  -> supply = food in this context...see "soupe".
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40 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
soup chore


Explanation:
Found this on a few sites. Or "Carrying soup to troops in the trenches"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2017-02-22 08:15:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As I said I found this on websites:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/France-WWI-Soup-Chore-at-the-Front...

Mary Carroll Richer LaFlèche
Italy
Local time: 16:30
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: Although this meaning is of course accurate, I don't believe this is the idiomatic term used in this context.
44 mins
  -> With a Colonel father and Colonel and General grand-fathers I am not sure either...

neutral  Pierre POUSSIN: "Soupe" in French military language is something else than "soup"...
3 hrs
  -> maybe so, but they are making soup or stew (some sort of food) in the picture...
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
soup fatigue


Explanation:
It's translated as "soup duty" in a couple of places:

"The work of Jean Droit, which certainly has a pedagogical dimension-La route est repérée (The Road Has Been Located, 1914) and Un 210 éclate (A 210 Explodes)-is similar to Pierre-Albert Leroux's Corvée de soupe (Soup Duty)."
http://www.cheminsdememoire.gouv.fr/en/la-peinture-et-la-gra...

But I think "soup fatigue", used in this text (also translated from French, a text by Henri Barbusse), is probably the authentic term:

"Here, lying across our path, which we are following upwards like a disaster, like a flood of debris beneath the dense sadness of the sky, lies a man who seems to be sleeping; but he is flattened against the ground in the way that distinguishes a dead body from a sleeping one. He was a man on soup fatigue, with his rosary of loaves threaded into a belt and a bunch of his comrades’ mess tins held to his shoulder by a tangle of straps. He must have been hit the previous night, his back holed by a piece of shrapnel. We must be the first to find him: an obscure soldier who died in obscurity."
https://gerryco23.wordpress.com/tag/leslie-norris/

Here it is again, in a contemporary account:

"It was in the Thiescourt Woods, I remember, that I saw Alan on his return from convalescent leave. My section was in first line trenches and his, in reserve, in the second line. I was on soup fatigue and was going to the Chalffour Quarry when I saw him in front of me, walking along alone."
True Stories of the Great War, 278
https://archive.org/details/truestoriesofgre05mill

"3 (fatigues) Menial non-military tasks performed by a soldier, sometimes as a punishment."
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/fatigue

It's not necessarily a punishment (and presumably isn't here); it's a menial but necessary task soldiers have to perform (when it's their turn).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2017-02-22 08:23:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

That account I cited on the death of the American poet Alan Seeger is actually also translated from French; it is by his companion Bif Bear, a young Egyptian. However, the translation is contemporaneous and probably uses authentic terminology; it was published in the New York newspaper The Sun in 1916:
http://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lccn/sn83030431/1916-10-15/...

Here's the expression used in an account by an American combatant:

"The strafing of infantry was first thought to involve too great a risk, but eventually it was practiced by both sides. In the American forces the first exponent of this kind of low-altitude fighting was Maj. Elmer Haslett, who broke up a German soup fatigue in a communication trench. This, from a German point of view, was almost as tragic as the battle of Chateau Thierry."
https://archive.org/stream/cu31924030744688#page/n37/mode/2u...

And here's another account in English, by a British PoW in the Second World War, indicating that "fatigue" is probably the term (both for the task and for the party performing it):

"It was hard work, peeling potatoes from 7.30 in morning to 4.30 in the evening but it was worth it as we received a double soup ration and were up to all the dodges of the day sneaking away with a few exlra patatoes. That, however, only lasted a few days for when the
German's [sic] heard that the English were on potato fatigues, they stopped it." (p. 19)
"To make the daily soup, fatigue parties were detailed who used to
gather snow, which was then melted to provide the necessary water for the soup." (p. 65)
http://www.lamsdorf.com/uploads/6/4/2/7/6427590/e._j._lees_2...

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 16:30
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 40
Grading comment
Superb thorough response, many thanks indeed.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M: Yes, I believe 'fatigue' is the jargon word used in the Forces.
11 mins
  -> Thanks, Tony! It was then, at least.

agree  Daryo
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, Daryo!

agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: Wow. Interesting!
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, Nikki! It is, isn't it?

agree  B D Finch
3 hrs
  -> Thanks, Barbara!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
soup duty


Explanation:
"Duty" implies that it is also a hardship.

Nicolas Loisel
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:30
Works in field
Native speaker of: French

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Pierre POUSSIN: No, that's the idea in "fatigue"...
1 hr
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