Jan 11, 2007 06:28
17 yrs ago
English term
The orders that we
Non-PRO
English
Art/Literary
Linguistics
"The orders were that we had evacuated the area within hours to prevent further loss of life."
Hello I am checking out a paper and I wonder if I can replace "had evacuated" with a subjunctive " such as:
The orders were that we evacuate the area
The orders were that we should evacuate the area
Is it possible?
Hello I am checking out a paper and I wonder if I can replace "had evacuated" with a subjunctive " such as:
The orders were that we evacuate the area
The orders were that we should evacuate the area
Is it possible?
Responses
4 +6 | both are possible | Yavor Dimitrov |
4 +3 | Rephrase | Anton Baer |
Responses
+6
1 min
Selected
both are possible
.
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Note added at 3 mins (2007-01-11 06:31:04 GMT)
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- the difference being as follows:
- that we evacuate the area - American English
- that we should evacuate the area - British English
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Note added at 1 hr (2007-01-11 07:40:49 GMT)
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Well I am pretty sure a subjunctive is possible when an order is in order. :-)
Example:
1. He ordered that the house be sold.
In this particular sentence, a passive structure followed by an infinitive is also possible:
We were ordered to evacuate the area.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 mins (2007-01-11 06:31:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
- the difference being as follows:
- that we evacuate the area - American English
- that we should evacuate the area - British English
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-01-11 07:40:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Well I am pretty sure a subjunctive is possible when an order is in order. :-)
Example:
1. He ordered that the house be sold.
In this particular sentence, a passive structure followed by an infinitive is also possible:
We were ordered to evacuate the area.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+3
9 mins
Rephrase
The/Our orders were to evacuate the area.
Why are you considering a subjunctive, when an order is an order? A 'suggestion' might be phrased in that way: "the suggestion was that we should evacuate the area"; or "the suggestion was that we evacuate the area." The sentence as given sounds unnatural.
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Note added at 10 hrs (2007-01-11 16:41:35 GMT)
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My feeling is that if an order isn't an order, an unequivocal command, then the organisation issuing it isn't an army. I've heard the Israeli army is pretty democratic and the Canadian army spokespersons I hear talking about Afghanistan on the radio, at the level of generals and major generals, project a tearful sensitivity that suggests debate and discussion of orders is welcome and that any refusal to follow orders in the field would be met with counselling. Perhaps it depends on the historical period. If the text dates from a period where a refusal to follow orders furnished grounds for court-martial, the subjunctive is probably out of place. 'Should' is also possible if it's contained in the order -- for example, it might not be possible to evacuate the area, if resistance is too great, and so the order might simply say something like 'The unit shall attempt to break-out...' In this case the author, indirectly quoting the essence of the orders, might say that the orders were 'that we should evacuate the area'. And 'shall' in direct speech can be reported indirectly as 'should' as well...
Why are you considering a subjunctive, when an order is an order? A 'suggestion' might be phrased in that way: "the suggestion was that we should evacuate the area"; or "the suggestion was that we evacuate the area." The sentence as given sounds unnatural.
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Note added at 10 hrs (2007-01-11 16:41:35 GMT)
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My feeling is that if an order isn't an order, an unequivocal command, then the organisation issuing it isn't an army. I've heard the Israeli army is pretty democratic and the Canadian army spokespersons I hear talking about Afghanistan on the radio, at the level of generals and major generals, project a tearful sensitivity that suggests debate and discussion of orders is welcome and that any refusal to follow orders in the field would be met with counselling. Perhaps it depends on the historical period. If the text dates from a period where a refusal to follow orders furnished grounds for court-martial, the subjunctive is probably out of place. 'Should' is also possible if it's contained in the order -- for example, it might not be possible to evacuate the area, if resistance is too great, and so the order might simply say something like 'The unit shall attempt to break-out...' In this case the author, indirectly quoting the essence of the orders, might say that the orders were 'that we should evacuate the area'. And 'shall' in direct speech can be reported indirectly as 'should' as well...
Peer comment(s):
agree |
kmtext
22 mins
|
agree |
William [Bill] Gray
: "had evacuated" in the original is definitely not acceptable; your comment about an order is well expressed.
41 mins
|
disagree |
David Moore (X)
: To me, as a BENS, rephrasing is not necessary
2 hrs
|
agree |
Tony M
: Although I think both Asker's suggestions are OK, I do prefer your version as better style; Bills comment that the original is NOT correct is important.
3 hrs
|
agree |
Vicky Papaprodromou
5 hrs
|
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