Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Spanish term or phrase:
sin ti diciendo nada
English translation:
without that you say nothing
Added to glossary by
Michael Powers (PhD)
Jun 17, 2007 15:30
16 yrs ago
Spanish term
United States
US Court Cert. 1980 Ph.D. 1981
Native in: English
Works in: Spanish to English, Portuguese to English, English to Spanish, and 2 more.
sin ti diciendo nada
Spanish to English
Other
Linguistics
incorrect translation
Detective: And if hearing your story, wasn’t important to me, I would have just arrested you, …
Suspect: Ajá
Interpreter: Y dice si no era muy importante oír tu historia, no más te iba a arrestar, arrestarte, …
Suspect: Ajá
Detective: … without you saying anything.
Interpreter: … sin ti diciendo nada.
Suspect: Ajá
OJO - I am not interested in what was being attempted to be said. What I need to do is translate this into non-standard, non-native English to reflect the mistakes in the original Spanish.
Obviously what should have been said is: "sin que (tú) digas nada;" however, that is of no interest here.
So the monolingual English speaking judge and jury can understand how the translation was butchered, I was considering:
"without your [sic.] to say [sic.] anything."
I want to use some sort of non-native form for the subject, since "ti" is wrong in the attempted translation, as well as reflect the wrong form of the gerund.
This is extremely important since the case hinges on overall ability of the suspect to understand what was being translated.
Other non-standard renditions are most welcomed and encouraged.
Thank you.
Mike :)
Suspect: Ajá
Interpreter: Y dice si no era muy importante oír tu historia, no más te iba a arrestar, arrestarte, …
Suspect: Ajá
Detective: … without you saying anything.
Interpreter: … sin ti diciendo nada.
Suspect: Ajá
OJO - I am not interested in what was being attempted to be said. What I need to do is translate this into non-standard, non-native English to reflect the mistakes in the original Spanish.
Obviously what should have been said is: "sin que (tú) digas nada;" however, that is of no interest here.
So the monolingual English speaking judge and jury can understand how the translation was butchered, I was considering:
"without your [sic.] to say [sic.] anything."
I want to use some sort of non-native form for the subject, since "ti" is wrong in the attempted translation, as well as reflect the wrong form of the gerund.
This is extremely important since the case hinges on overall ability of the suspect to understand what was being translated.
Other non-standard renditions are most welcomed and encouraged.
Thank you.
Mike :)
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Jun 19, 2007 02:46: Michael Powers (PhD) changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/52429">Michael Powers (PhD)'s</a> old entry - "sin ti diciendo nada"" to ""you without say anything""
Proposed translations
+3
59 mins
Chris Williams
Native in English
Specializes in field
Fast work personal service.
Native in: English 
Works in: Spanish to English, Portuguese to English, English to Spanish, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
6
Selected
without that you say nothing
i think that sounds suitably choppedup. Years of TEFL teaching tells me it sounds good.
Note from asker:
| I also taught ESL full time for 3 years and many years part-time, and to this point I like it, altough the stimagized lower- to lower-middle class use of "nothin" or "nothing" doesn't really reflect the poor grammar in this case; however, it seems to be the best option so far and might be the appropriate one. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Ana Belen Almada
: I like it. This option sounds very awkward, and it reflects the exact Spanish structure. It would be an excellent bad translation :p, if it was the other way around.
10 mins
|
| agree |
Manuel Cedeño Berrueta
: Exactly, this is a frequent literal translation of “sin que tú digas nada”.
18 mins
|
| agree |
Margaret Schroeder
: The interpreter's rendition was nearly a word-for-word of the correct English"without your saying [anything]". This reverses the process, giving nearly a word-for-word of the correct Spanish, as Ana Belen and Manuel have noted.
10 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I believe this answer best reflects the plethora of mistakes in this attempted translation. Thanks to all!!
Mike :)"
5 mins
David Russi
United States
United States
Native in Spanish
&
English
Works in field
United States
30+ years, stopped counting...
Native in: English , Spanish
Works in: English to Spanish, Spanish to English
Related KudoZ points
:
24
you without say anything
The sentence structure is slightly off and avoids the gerund, natural in English
Note from asker:
| I don't want to make it sound any more natural in Enlgish than it does in Spanish; to the contrary, I want to make it sound just as akward. Now, if you feel it sounds natural in Spanish, that is a different matter. |
18 mins
without your say anything
I would use a bare infinitive to make it sound a little more butchered.
Note from asker:
| This sounds "too natural" in English since "you're" and "your" are pronounced identically, and in the former case it would be fine. |
53 mins
without your say nothing
??
Note from asker:
| Also along the right lines. Let's wait and see what our colleagues think. |
+1
1 hr
without you, saying nothing
What the interpreter literally said.
Note from asker:
| The problem is the interpreter is too literaly, and thus obfuscates the acutal meaning. If is this obfuscation that I need to reflect. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Alan R King
: I would use this making a big thing of the comma (easier to do if delivered orally) AND appending a translator's note explaining that the expression used by the interpreter is gibberish and that this reading (WITH COMMA) give its (only possible) meaning.
28 mins
|
1 hr
"..w/o you say nothing"
Hi,
As you say at the end of your question, the point is not so much how (or how much) the translation was mangled (much like the interpreter's reputation, by this stage), as the "overall ability of the suspect to understand what was being translated."
Now you say that the correct form would be "sin que (tú) digas nada" which it undoubtedly is. If it were the only correct form, the suspect could perhaps be justified in not having understood it.
But another, perfectly correct form would be...
"..sin tú decir nada", which is not so far removed from:
"..w/o you say nothing" (as a possible, imperfect equivalent)
the English being readily understandable to anyone with an ounce of sense - even accounting for the fact they're being questioned by the police.
In short, a very flimsy defence, IMO.
Andy
As you say at the end of your question, the point is not so much how (or how much) the translation was mangled (much like the interpreter's reputation, by this stage), as the "overall ability of the suspect to understand what was being translated."
Now you say that the correct form would be "sin que (tú) digas nada" which it undoubtedly is. If it were the only correct form, the suspect could perhaps be justified in not having understood it.
But another, perfectly correct form would be...
"..sin tú decir nada", which is not so far removed from:
"..w/o you say nothing" (as a possible, imperfect equivalent)
the English being readily understandable to anyone with an ounce of sense - even accounting for the fact they're being questioned by the police.
In short, a very flimsy defence, IMO.
Andy
Note from asker:
| As far as his defense is concerned, I am not biased one way or the other; in point of fact, there is a very incriminating answer that the interpreter misunderstood completely that I am going to include. I just want to be accurate semantically and sociolinguistically. Your observation as to his understanding is interesting. |
1 hr
For some reason, I can't add a note to my original answer
Hi Mike,
"His understanding" is not just important. It is "of the essence".
The real question to ask is "Could an average Spanish speaker be expected to understand the expression in that situation".
Only then can you attempt to "reproduce" the degree of difficulty he encountered.
Andy
"His understanding" is not just important. It is "of the essence".
The real question to ask is "Could an average Spanish speaker be expected to understand the expression in that situation".
Only then can you attempt to "reproduce" the degree of difficulty he encountered.
Andy
Note from asker:
| Point well made. Thanks - Mike :) |
10 hrs
Barbara Cochran, MFA
United States
United States
Native in English
Works in field
United States
Laudable Lady Linguist
Native in: English
Works in: Spanish to English, French to English, English to Spanish, and 3 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
3
without your saying anything
I doubt it could be anything else.
12 hrs
Lydia De Jorge
United States
United States
Native in Spanish
&
English
Specializes in field
United States
Don't just say it, say it right!
Native in: Spanish , English
Works in: English to Spanish, Spanish to English, English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
31
without you nothing saying
.
2 days 3 hrs
without you (in person) saying nothing
En mi opinión el peor error es 'sin ti', porque suena como que lo iba a arrestar 'sin él', sin su presencia, cómo lo va a arrestar? y 'diciendo nada' se puede entender como que lo iba a arrestar sin decirle nada, sobre su arresto, derechos, etc.
Pienso que una persona que necesita un traductor puede entender estas cosas con esa traducción. Espero haber ayudado.
Pienso que una persona que necesita un traductor puede entender estas cosas con esa traducción. Espero haber ayudado.
Discussion
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Mike :)