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if it wasn't for his injury
Aug 12, 2007 09:32
16 yrs ago
2 viewers *
English term

leave school

English Art/Literary General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
If an Irish person says they left school at sixteen does it mean they graduated or quit?

E.g.
When he reached sixteen, he left school and went to work in a factory in Dublin.

I'd left school at sixteen and worked at the chemists.
Responses
3 +10 decide not to continue with one's studies after completing their compusory education
4 +2 quit - Not for points
5 -1 quit
3 -1 quit

Discussion

Angela Dickson (X) Aug 14, 2007:
In answer to your question - graduated or quit? - strictly speaking, neither, as one doesn't 'graduate' from normal school (pre-18) in Ireland, one leaves. And 'leaving' doesn't imply failure.

Responses

+10
20 mins
Selected

decide not to continue with one's studies after completing their compusory education

In the UK (including Northern Ireland), compulsory education lasts until a person is sixteen. At this stage they decide whether or not to continue further with their education. Someone who decides not to do so would normally say 'I left school when I was sixteen'.

As I understand it, the point being made is not whether they graduated or were thrown out. The point is that they decided not to continue with their education.

I'll look for some references

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Note added at 22 mins (2007-08-12 09:55:03 GMT)
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Aha - sorry. I also meant to add that compulsory education looks very much the same in the Republic of Ireland - in other words, it is completed at the age of sixteen.

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Note added at 28 mins (2007-08-12 10:01:20 GMT)
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http://tinyurl.com/34uthj (re. the Republic of Ireland)
http://tinyurl.com/3ceuxb (re. the Republic of Ireland)

"Compulsory school age in Northern Ireland means that a child should attend school if they have reached the age of 4 years but not yet reached the age of 16 years, subject to when the child’s birthday falls within the school year. (...)"
( From: http://tinyurl.com/33gfs5 )


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Note added at 34 mins (2007-08-12 10:06:54 GMT)
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http://tinyurl.com/3x8zqf (re. Northern Ireland)

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Note added at 38 mins (2007-08-12 10:11:04 GMT)
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"There are several things that the law says your school must do to help you makeyour choices when you reach 16:

Your school must make sure you can get advice and information, usually from the school librarian or careers advisor, about the options you have if you decide to leave school. (...)"
( From: http://tinyurl.com/2ddt67 )

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Note added at 42 mins (2007-08-12 10:14:59 GMT)
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"Teenage singer Charlotte Church has announced she is leaving school to concentrate on her career after passing her GCSEs.
The 16-year-old international star received confirmation of her three A* grades, including music, and four A grades on Thursday.

But she plans to return to studying to take A-levels in two years' time, and then wants to study psychology at university - possibly in America. (...)".
( From: http://tinyurl.com/2fckj2 )
Peer comment(s):
agree cmwilliams (X) : yes, not the same as quit. A person does not 'graduate' from a school in the UK. A school leaver is someone who finishes his/her compulsory education.
6 mins
Yup! I'm just posting in some references to support what I've written. Thank you :-)
agree tappi_k
29 mins
Thank you :-)
agree Cristina Santos
36 mins
Thank you :-)
agree Angela Dickson (X) : yes.
38 mins
Thank you :-)
agree Shera Lyn Parpia
45 mins
Thank you :-)
agree Carmen Schultz
46 mins
Thank you :-)
agree Peter Shortall : I have two Irish cousins who did their "Leaving Cert" at age 18, so even if you decide to carry on, it seems "leaving" continues to mean completing your studies
1 hr
Right - whether you complete and leave at 16 or at 18. Thank you :-)
agree Rachel Fell
2 hrs
Thank you :-)
agree Mark Nathan : they left school as soon as they could
12 hrs
Thank you :-)
agree Sophia Finos (X)
15 hrs
Thank you :-)
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you, Caryl! :)"
-1
4 mins

quit

I'm pretty sure in both British and American English it means to quit school, leave without graduating.
Peer comment(s):
agree Ghyslaine LE NAGARD
4 mins
Thank you, New Cal.
disagree cmwilliams (X) : In the British (and I believe Irish) system, a person does not 'graduate' from school. If someone leaves school, it just means that they have finished their compulsory education.
36 mins
Thanks, I stand corrected.
disagree Angela Dickson (X) : no, in this case it means just that the person stopped his studies on reaching the school (=pre-18) leaving age. In Ireland and Britain, 'school' ends at 18, and university/college are not 'school'.
54 mins
Thank you, Angela. I've learned something new from this whole discussion.
Something went wrong...
-1
5 mins

quit

Not being Irish, but being otherwise a native speaker, in the US and Canada, when someone "leaves school" it means they quit - or got kick out. It is a polilte way of not going into a long - and usually unpleasant story.

If someone finishes school successfully, they graduate.
Peer comment(s):
neutral cmwilliams (X) : but not the same in the UK or Ireland
36 mins
disagree Angela Dickson (X) : this is not the meaning in this case (see above).
53 mins
Something went wrong...
+2
3 hrs

quit - Not for points

But in support of and by way of additional info on Caryl's answer.

My definition of "quit" is simply "to leave"; in this case, with no hint of the compulsion which other answers imply. As Caryl says, in the UK and Ireland, schooling is compulsory until the age of sixteen, at which age most children take GCSE - General Certificate of Secondary Education - examinations. These would probably equate to the German "Realschulabschluss", meaning about two years' education below the standard "Abitur", or qualification to attend university (UK) or graduation in the USA.

What the old "General Certificate of Education "A" (advanced) level which qualifies to university application is now called in the UK, I have no idea - it is after all over fifty years ago I sat mine - and things have changed...

Good GCSE results in the UK would be a help to anyone leaving (quitting) school; they do after all indicate that one did try, but obviously, the whole world wants to have a doctorate today, so what do we do when there are no "indians" left, but only "chiefs"?

In the UK, "graduation" is reserved AFAIK to those who have actually obtained their "colours" at university (Bachelor's degree) - hence "post-graduate studies" would usually lead to "Master degree" or doctorate etc.
Peer comment(s):
neutral cmwilliams (X) : but it's best to avoid the word 'quit' as this has a very different connotation in the US and could be confusing.
47 mins
agree juvera : At the time of writing this note (!) the GCE A level is still called thus. However, they added an AS (Advanced Subsidiary) level to the system; hovering between GCSE and A levels, AS exams can be taken in chosen subjects after just one year of study.
59 mins
agree Angela Dickson (X) : yes, but I'm pretty sure they don't have GCSEs in Ireland (though the school leaving age is the same as in the UK).
1 day 20 hrs
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