Mar 23, 2009 09:58
15 yrs ago
2 viewers *
German term
Austria
Lesley Robertson MA, Dip Trans IoLET
Creative and conscientious
Native in: English 
Works in: German to English
Vorabendmesse
German to English
Other
Religion
refers to a Catholic service
Samstag, 19:00: Vorabendmesse
Samstag, 19:00: Vorabendmesse
Proposed translations
(English)
| 5 +1 | Saturday evening mass |
nruddy
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| 5 +4 | Anticipatory Mass |
Stephen Old
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| 4 +2 | vigil mass |
Helen Shiner
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| 4 +1 | eve mass |
Ellen Kraus
|
| 4 +1 | vigil mass |
Cilian O'Tuama
|
| 3 +1 | early evening service |
casper (X)
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Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:
Non-PRO (1): writeaway
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Proposed translations
+1
5 hrs
Selected
Saturday evening mass
My parents usually talk about "evening mass" but I'd tack Saturday onto it because in our local church, for example, there is a Sunday mass at 5.30 pm that isn't an anticipatory mass.
I have never heard the term "anticipatory mass" being used in Ireland, though I'm sure the clergy would be familiar with it. If your text isn't very ecclesiastical, I'd just say something like "Saturday evening mass: 7 pm". Vigil mass is correct but does seem to be before major feast days: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_vigil_mass
I have never heard the term "anticipatory mass" being used in Ireland, though I'm sure the clergy would be familiar with it. If your text isn't very ecclesiastical, I'd just say something like "Saturday evening mass: 7 pm". Vigil mass is correct but does seem to be before major feast days: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_vigil_mass
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanyou to everyone - I've used this "neutral" term as it does fit the context better although some of the others are equally valid and more "correct""
+1
5 mins
Ellen Kraus
Austria
Austria
Native in German
Austria
more than thirty years of experience
Native in: German
Works in: Greek to German, English to German, Greek to English, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
eve mass
die Messe on the eve before
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Note added at 7 Min. (2009-03-23 10:05:30 GMT)
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sorry, it should read die Messe on the evening before (Ostersamstag)
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Note added at 7 Min. (2009-03-23 10:05:30 GMT)
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sorry, it should read die Messe on the evening before (Ostersamstag)
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
David Williams
: It could equally well mean "mass (on) the evening before", hard to tell for certain without more context.
16 mins
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+1
11 mins
early evening service
For web references, you may like to goole for:
"early evening service" + catholic
"early evening service" + catholic
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
David Williams
: I think the catholics would say "mass" rather than service, but "Vorabend" could equally well be "the evening before", depending on the context.
5 mins
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Thank you, David
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| neutral |
Cilian O'Tuama
: the "Vorabend" here means the Abend of the Vortag, unlike e.g. in Vorabendprogram, where it means before the Abendprogramm (if you get my drift)
5 hrs
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Oh, ok. I get it now. Thank you for clarifying, Cilian :-)
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+1
54 mins
Cilian O'Tuama
Germany
Germany
Native in English
Germany
Quality Translations since 1986
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, English, German, and 6 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
16
vigil mass
the term I'm familiar with to mean mass held on the "vigil" (evening before) the actual date of the event being celebrated (e.g. Christmas eve, Easter Saturday...)
+4
16 mins
Anticipatory Mass
Hi, Lesley. In the Catholic Church practising Catholics have a "duty" to attend Mass every Sunday and if for any reason they know that they they will be unable to go to Mass on Sunday can often discharge this duty by going to Mass on a Saturday evening instead. This is called an "anticipatory" Mass. Catholics are also expected to attend Mass on certain "Holiday Days of Obligation" (i.e. to attend Mass). These days are days such as, Alls Saints Day , the Feast of the Assumption (into heaven of mary) and Christmas Day if it does not fall on on a Sunday. Many parishes will have the traditional Midnight Mass at 8 pm on the evening before Christmas Day starts, this is therefore an anticipatory Mass. Does this make sense in your context?
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Note added at 49 mins (2009-03-23 10:47:08 GMT)
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Here is a link which i have just found though there are not many references to anticpatory Masses on the net, there is one near thebottom of this page :
http://www.norfolkchurches.co.uk/lynford/lynford.htm
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Note added at 59 mins (2009-03-23 10:57:31 GMT)
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I think the practice of holding anticipatory Masses in advance of Sundays and important feast days, such as the Feast of Corpus Christi, is taken taken from the practice of the Jews who prepare for a feast day on the evening before the feast. The feast therefore is some sense begins on the evenig befor the actual day. I do not know the full details of this custom, however. In view of the lack of understanding of the term "anticipatory" in the non-Catholic population, perhaps it should be followed by a short gloss.
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Note added at 1 hr (2009-03-23 11:03:24 GMT)
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I think Vigil Mass is used of More important feasts, especially Easter and Christmas. I think it can be use of a Saturday Mass too, but certainly in England, anticipatory Mass is the one I have most often seen used.
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Note added at 49 mins (2009-03-23 10:47:08 GMT)
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Here is a link which i have just found though there are not many references to anticpatory Masses on the net, there is one near thebottom of this page :
http://www.norfolkchurches.co.uk/lynford/lynford.htm
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Note added at 59 mins (2009-03-23 10:57:31 GMT)
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I think the practice of holding anticipatory Masses in advance of Sundays and important feast days, such as the Feast of Corpus Christi, is taken taken from the practice of the Jews who prepare for a feast day on the evening before the feast. The feast therefore is some sense begins on the evenig befor the actual day. I do not know the full details of this custom, however. In view of the lack of understanding of the term "anticipatory" in the non-Catholic population, perhaps it should be followed by a short gloss.
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Note added at 1 hr (2009-03-23 11:03:24 GMT)
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I think Vigil Mass is used of More important feasts, especially Easter and Christmas. I think it can be use of a Saturday Mass too, but certainly in England, anticipatory Mass is the one I have most often seen used.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
David Williams
: Although I'd be willing to defer to the insider knowledge of a genuine Catholic, I suspect Anticipatory Mass has a more specific name in German.
8 mins
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I am a genuine Catholic! If you look at the Mass times as shown on a church notice board, th etime of the mass on a Saturday evening, often 5.30pm s followed by (anticipatory)
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| agree |
Alison MacG
: Although I'm not a Catholic, I think you are correct that this refers to a regular Saturday "anticipated mass", e.g. http://www.stpeterandstpaul.co.uk/Newsletters/currentnl.pdf. Perhaps simply "Saturday evening mass" on many church notice boards?
56 mins
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Thanks, Alison. the link did nont work though.
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| neutral |
Cilian O'Tuama
: I've never heard it called that (whatever that means coming from Irish Cath.)
1 hr
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Thanks Cilian. This is certainly the term used in relation to the Saturday evening Mass by us English Catholics (with Irish ancestry!). Vigil Mass is fine for Easter and Christmas but few people keep a vigil in advance of a normal Sunday these days.
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| agree |
Helen Shiner
: Depending on target audience, these terms are interchangeable.
1 hr
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I agree Helen, that vigil Mass may in some ways be clearer, depending on the targer audience. As a Catholic though I have most often seen anticipatory used of the Saturday Mass, which is why I posted that first.
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| agree |
Rebecca Garber
: According to Canon Law, there are only 6 'vigil masses' per year linked to the major feasts. Saturday Mass is correctly called an "anticipatory mass"; however, in the US it is commonly called a "vigil mass" even though the terminology is incorrect.
3 hrs
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| agree |
Anne-Marie Grant (X)
: our local church calls it a 'Mass of Anticipation'. I've also seen it called an 'Anticipation Mass'. I don't think there would be anything wrong with calling it a 'Saturday Evening Mass' to avoid any confusion!
1 day 1 hr
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+2
51 mins
Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
United Kingdom
Arts/Academic translator - Art historian
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
16
vigil mass
It is the mass said on the eve of a holy day.
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Note added at 55 mins (2009-03-23 10:53:13 GMT)
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A vigil mass is a mass said on the day before a major feast day. Vigil masses are "waiting" masses, meaning that the approaching feast day is of such import that the Church desires the faithful to take a day to prepare themselves to celebrate it fully, with true hearts and clear dispositions. A vigil mass day is therefore usually a day of fast and/or abstinence and the mass itself has propers - specific prayers - that call the soul to purify itself in preparation of the feast tomorrow.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_vigil_mass
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Note added at 58 mins (2009-03-23 10:56:10 GMT)
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http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definitions/Vigil Mass
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Note added at 1 hr (2009-03-23 10:59:49 GMT)
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Hi Lesley - I hope my last link demonstrates that, which is why I posted it - at about the same time as you posted your question, it seems.
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Note added at 1 hr (2009-03-23 11:42:09 GMT)
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From what I can see the terms 'vigil mass' and 'anticipatory mass' are both used and interchangeably. See link below:
http://www.ewtn.org/vexperts/showmessage.asp?number=466523&P...
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Note added at 55 mins (2009-03-23 10:53:13 GMT)
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A vigil mass is a mass said on the day before a major feast day. Vigil masses are "waiting" masses, meaning that the approaching feast day is of such import that the Church desires the faithful to take a day to prepare themselves to celebrate it fully, with true hearts and clear dispositions. A vigil mass day is therefore usually a day of fast and/or abstinence and the mass itself has propers - specific prayers - that call the soul to purify itself in preparation of the feast tomorrow.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_vigil_mass
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Note added at 58 mins (2009-03-23 10:56:10 GMT)
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http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definitions/Vigil Mass
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Note added at 1 hr (2009-03-23 10:59:49 GMT)
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Hi Lesley - I hope my last link demonstrates that, which is why I posted it - at about the same time as you posted your question, it seems.
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Note added at 1 hr (2009-03-23 11:42:09 GMT)
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From what I can see the terms 'vigil mass' and 'anticipatory mass' are both used and interchangeably. See link below:
http://www.ewtn.org/vexperts/showmessage.asp?number=466523&P...
Note from asker:
| This, however, is referring to a service held every Saturday evening, not specifically before a major feast day. Do you know if "vigil mass" can be still be used? |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Cilian O'Tuama
: oops. you beat me to it
3 mins
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Thanks, Cilian - pas de problème - at least we demonstrate that we must be on to something.
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| agree |
Stephen Old
: As I have written above. I think technically the terms are interchangeable. In England the term vigil Mass is now mainly used of Easter and and Christmas. they may use vigil Mass for a Saturday Mass in the US, which is where your linked website is from.
58 mins
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Thanks, Stephen - yes, glad we have got to the same place independently. Though since I am not a Catholic, I think the Asker should listen to you regarding local usage.
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Reference comments
15 mins
Reference:
[PDF]
Hotel Information Steffisalp
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Vorabendmesse. Sonntag, 09.00 Uhr. Hauptgottesdienst ... Church mass. Saturday 07.30pm. Evening mass. Sunday 09.00am. Main mass ...
www.tandem.at/beispiele/in-house-marketing/zimmermappe-spor...
NFORMATION Winter 2008/09
Catholic Mass. I 28. 033 822 16 66. Sa 18h Vorabendmesse. Evening mass. , So 9.30h Heilige Messe. Holy Mass. (Werktagsmessen siehe Aushang bei der Kirche ...
www.grindelwald.travel/de/sandbox/pdf_doc/gt/guide_d_e_08.p...
[PDF]
www.einsiedeln.ch
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
17.30 Uhr Vorabendmesse (Klosterkirche). 05.30 Uhr Vigil (Oberer Chor) ... 17.30 Saturday: Evening Mass (Abbey Church). 05.30 Vigils (Upper Choir) ...
www.pfadihus.ch/einsiedeln_de.pdf
Hotel Information Steffisalp
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Vorabendmesse. Sonntag, 09.00 Uhr. Hauptgottesdienst ... Church mass. Saturday 07.30pm. Evening mass. Sunday 09.00am. Main mass ...
www.tandem.at/beispiele/in-house-marketing/zimmermappe-spor...
NFORMATION Winter 2008/09
Catholic Mass. I 28. 033 822 16 66. Sa 18h Vorabendmesse. Evening mass. , So 9.30h Heilige Messe. Holy Mass. (Werktagsmessen siehe Aushang bei der Kirche ...
www.grindelwald.travel/de/sandbox/pdf_doc/gt/guide_d_e_08.p...
[PDF]
www.einsiedeln.ch
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
17.30 Uhr Vorabendmesse (Klosterkirche). 05.30 Uhr Vigil (Oberer Chor) ... 17.30 Saturday: Evening Mass (Abbey Church). 05.30 Vigils (Upper Choir) ...
www.pfadihus.ch/einsiedeln_de.pdf
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