Dec 24, 2002 17:01
21 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term

femme-lapin

French to English Art/Literary History WWI, history
An actress remembers her youth during wwI, in france, near the Begian border:

Je me souviens de mon enfance, dans la zone interdite, pres de la frontiere belge. Des camarades raflees. de mon amie du Conservatoire, qui avait ete femme-lapin"

Discussion

Non-ProZ.com Dec 24, 2002:
breeder of children IRAT56 makes me think...Could this friend have been a woman who was chosen by nazis to be a breeder (I heard there was something like that going on at that time...)
Non-ProZ.com Dec 24, 2002:
references Ok, all these seem great. does anyone have any references to point to? particular anecdotes? I'm abraod right now without any tools, so I really appreciate your help!!

Proposed translations

+7
8 hrs
Selected

she has been used as a guinea-pig

"En sortant d'Auschwitz nous avons été envoyées à Ravensbrück. Là, nous avons été conduites au bloc des N.N., qui voulait dire "Nacht und Nebel" c'est-à-dire "le secret". dans ce bloc, avec nous, il y avait des Polonaises, portant le matricule 7.000, et quelques-unes qu'on appelait les "lapins", parce qu'elles avaient servi de cobayes. On choisissait dans leurs transports des jeunes filles ayant les jambes bien droites et étant elles-mêmes bien saines, et on leur faisait subir les opérations. A certaines, on a enlevé des parties d'os dans les jambes; à d'autres, on a fait des injections, mais je ne saurais pas dire de quoi."
http://www.fndirp.asso.fr/temoigmcvc3.htm

"Une grande partie des archives de l’ADIR déposées à la BDIC concerne les expérimentations pseudo-scientifiques exercées dans les camps et toutes les activités de la Commission d’indemnisation des victimes de ces expérimentations mise en place par l’ADIR dès la fin de la guerre : stérilisation, expériences hématologiques, expérimentations sur des déportées, notamment des Polonaises (qu’on appelait alors les "lapins"), documents des Revier (infirmeries), correspondance entre la hiérarchie SS et les médecins des camps (ordres, circulaires,…), "
http://buweb.univ-angers.fr/ARCHFEM/BDIC.htm

"Anise Postel-Vinay parla ensuite des "lapins" de Ravensbrück, jeunes Polonaises ayant subi une ou plusieurs "opérations" aux jambes, pour prouver "scientifiquement" que les sulfamides n’étaient pas efficaces contre la gangrène gazeuse. "
http://aphgcaen.free.fr/cercle/eugen.htm


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Note added at 2003-01-01 17:19:44 (GMT)
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Now that I know who you are talking about, from your other question:
\"Catherine Samie se souvient. «J’avais 8, 9 ans. En classe, j’ai vu la Gestapo traîner mes camarades juives par les cheveux…» Elle évoque son amie Nina, qui a servi de cobaye à Ravensbrück. Et sa mère qui, prétextant des crises d’asthme de ses filles, sortait après le couvre-feu en les tenant par la main, pour ouvrir la voie à des juifs, en Haute-Savoie.\"
http://www.nouvelobs.com/articles/p1959/a18124.html
Peer comment(s):

agree Pierre POUSSIN : Tragiquement exact! Merci encore!
5 hrs
agree Odette Grille (X) : lapin et cobaye ont le même sens, en ce contexte
23 hrs
agree Arthur Borges : S'il agit effectivement de "WWII" mais Erolufs a marqué "WWI" -- fôte de frappe ?
1 day 1 hr
"raflées" signifie WWII - et voir son autre question.
agree Jennifer White : I think this is exactly right in this context
1 day 10 hrs
agree Christopher Crockett : Nailed it.
1 day 14 hrs
agree Yolanda Broad
1 day 14 hrs
agree Gayle Wallimann
1 day 17 hrs
merci à tous
neutral Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X) : OK, I agree if it is WWI- Do we know for sure? The poster has not confirmed which war it was...
1 day 20 hrs
see her other question - this person's great grandmother had been used as a guinea pig too in 1914 - it has to be later. Anyway even in another context this is what it would sound like.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Graded automatically based on peer agreement. KudoZ."
+3
13 mins

woman who likes to have sexual relations

In French, that's what it means. I am not sure of the English, not dirty but cute equivalent. Maybe something like "who really liked to nukey" sorry, don't know how to spell that. That's the least pejorative I can think of...

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Note added at 2002-12-24 18:47:54 (GMT)
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Excuse me, but what is the matter with everyone? Femme-lapin is cute.

Sex mad, nymphomaniac, loose wanton etc and all the suggestions are NEGATIVELY CONNOTED IN ENGLISH.

The only CUTE way to say it, so far, [the actual expression in French is usually chaud lapin], is she like to nookey. If Claudia Iglesias is right, and I suspect she might very well be, the answer would be:

My dance-crazy friend.....

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Note added at 2002-12-24 18:51:13 (GMT)
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Ok, based on Claudia\'s idea, here is a circa WWI reference: it was a dance! This is I think is the right idea, now:

Avant 1910 les danses sociales, comme la Polka, la Valse, la Scottish, étaient surtout dansées par des jeunes car elles demandaient beaucoup d\'endurance et dès que se développa le Ragtime il se développa aussi des danses beaucoup plus simples. Des danses qui avaient des noms d\'animaux comme le : Fox-trot (pas de renard), le Turkey hot (pas chaud de dinde), le Grizzly bear (l\'ours), le \" Bunny hogue \" (LE BISOU DU LAPIN), le Camelwalk (la marche du chameau qui inspira James Brown et à son tour Michael Jackson et finalement qui prit le nom de \"Moonwalk\").

FINAL: BUNNY HOGUE



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Note added at 2002-12-26 22:01:13 (GMT)
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Note to Dan:

I am not saying, again, my answer is the only one. But it is the only one that comes anywhere near the idea of cute. Universal acceptance is not something that necessarily means a translation is correct. I repeat to my ear, the sex mad is pejoratively connoted.

Re the Nazis: The text refers to WWI NOT WWII. So, the guinea pig answer does not fit the bill in my opinion.
Peer comment(s):

agree Libero_Lang_Lab : nookie I think - but it's normally a noun rather than a verb! is your version not a bit too formal perhaps?
1 min
agree EDLING (X) : that's the idea, but the French expression is not so politically correct ...
9 mins
agree Marie Scarano : how about, easy / loose, girls/women. There are several ways to express this concept: .. with healthy sexual appetites,a wanton woman, hussies, vamps, harlot, tart, . .. is whore perhaps too strong?
14 mins
neutral Florence Bremond : unfortunately not that funny - see references below
8 hrs
neutral Christopher Crockett : Sounds right, until Oddie's remarks are taken into consideration. "Nooky" is the way the O.E.D. likes it, btw, with usages from 1928. (This is a family site, else I'd give them.)
1 day 22 hrs
Something went wrong...
+2
18 mins

she was sex mad

There is the expression in English: to go at it like rabbits! i.e. to be have a lot of sex. This obviously comes from the same idea, but you wouldn't describe someone in English as a rabbit in this sense!

There is the term sexpot - very mild these days, and not perjorative, just a little old-fashioned.

Sex maniac also can be used tongue-in-cheek - it doesn't have to be perjorative.

But if you want to preserve the animal instinct, you could say she was a bit of a vixen.



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Note added at 2002-12-24 17:38:07 (GMT)
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To Marie - remember the woman she is describing is an old friend. All of the terms you suggest - as vivid as they are - are all to greater or lesser degrees dissapproving or downright offensive. Unlikely that she would describe une amie de Conservatoire in such terms I think.

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Note added at 2002-12-24 21:27:12 (GMT)
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To Jane: I find your certainty regarding the ONLY suitable term somewhat misplaced. I repeat - to nookey (as you have now decided to spell it - is NOT universally accepted term, nor is it the ONLY term that can be used in a \'cute\' way. In fact to assert this is quite absurd. \'My sex mad friend\' has ABSOLUTELY nothing perjorative about it. And there are other ways of saying it too - but \'my friend who liked to nookey\' hmmm.

But then it seems we were both wrong anyway and it refers to something entirely unsexual.
Peer comment(s):

agree EDLING (X)
6 mins
agree Sarah Downing : Nymphomaniac might be another possibility;-)
17 mins
that's always an option that I am happy to consider.
neutral Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X) : Sex mad rings pejoratively to my ear. I don;t say mine is the only one, I say it is the only one that is not negatively connoted...
5 hrs
neutral Florence Bremond : unfortunately not that funny - see references below
8 hrs
Something went wrong...
+4
36 mins

woman-rabbit (role)

I don't think it is related to sexual habits. In french the exact/usual wording for that is rather "une (chaude) lapine".

I guess, as she was at the Conservatoire, that it was related to a role in a play.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Libero_Lang_Lab : ah yes, Rabbit Woman, the evil foe of the Incredible Elk
2 mins
is it supposed to be humor?
agree Claudia Iglesias : je pense aux femmes-lapin de spectacles, mais pas à activité sexuelle particulière (type fille "play boy") mais juste pour danser
4 mins
agree Odette Grille (X) : rabbit-woman http://artifis.free.fr/Expo/pages/F-lapin.htm
9 mins
agree lien : exactly what I think. Il s'agit d'un role dans un spectacle.
5 hrs
agree Michael Bastin : oui, je pense aussi http://oniryu.free.fr/archive/fanfic/bof/liriel_rm_04.htm
14 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
43 mins

Nymphomaniac

Someone who is sex-mad.
Peer comment(s):

agree Sarah Downing : Suggested this above (before your answer),so agree. Floozy is another possibility
1 hr
Something went wrong...
+2
44 mins

bunnygirl????

well if it isn't a sexual reference and it is really something along the lines that Mark and Claudia are suggesting it could be this perhaps.

showgirl, chorus girl are more generic terms and therefore more appropriate. bunnygirls are associated specifically with Hugh Hefner's Playboy empire
Peer comment(s):

agree jerrie : This was my immediate thought...doesn't mean it's right though....
1 day 23 mins
agree Odette Grille (X)
1 day 7 hrs
Something went wrong...
+2
47 mins

une "mèragosses"

Literary coined by Bazin: in fact "the mother of many children"
Tht's what it means in French. Nothing for direct sexual relations. It exist for the man, (un chaud lapin), not for a woman (sorry for not being politically correct)"Une mère-lapine" describes a mother of many.

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Note added at 2002-12-24 18:57:07 (GMT)
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I think \"yes\", she could have been a \"Guinea Pig\" for Nazis.
But I am definitely sure that \"femme-lapin\" has nothing to do with the feminine of \"chaud lapin\"!
Peer comment(s):

neutral Libero_Lang_Lab : just based on the context... she is remembering her youth. Is it really likely that a friend from the Conservatory was then a serial mother??? Not sure, just sounds unlikely to me ;-)
11 mins
You might be right at that! But in that time, there was no bith-control!
agree Odette Grille (X) : breeder sounds likely to me
3 hrs
Merci! Happy Christmas!
agree Florence Bremond : with your idea of guinea pig - see references below
7 hrs
Merci, Oddie! Bonnes Fêtes!
Something went wrong...
+1
1 hr

i don't have the answer

but do not believe it is has anything to do with chaud-lapin and other sex-mad creatures... may be someting to do with a part in a play or else some sort of oriental horoscope feature (help Arthur !!!) or else some local custom fable of "femme-lapin" seems plausible from context given but definitely against the sex version, though in fact I have no satisfactory suggestion

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Note added at 2002-12-24 18:19:38 (GMT)
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I am not half-horse, either 100% (the photo is my beautiful barbian (north-african fantasias horses) stallion, or a normal female translator creature, it\'s just this bestiary sequence strikes me as having something to it we have not grasped yet
Peer comment(s):

agree Libero_Lang_Lab : i can only think that given that you are half-horse, you have insights on this one that we cannot possibly understand
3 mins
see above, I got the wrong boxfor the answer to Dann's comment
Something went wrong...
4 hrs

"breeding mother"

Not exactly a term, just a sugegstion for the idea.
I believe this is to do with that frightening Nazi 'Herrenvolk' breeding programme, though I'm afraid I don't have time right now to dig out suitable references.
Something went wrong...
6 hrs

Je suis tout a fait d'accord

avec CJohnstone, si vous ne voulez pas nous croire que "femme-lapin" est un numero dans un show de varietes, au moins ne mettez pas sexmad or something of the kind...
Something went wrong...
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