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on raisonne en camp et non en année civile
n'en est pas à son premier coup d'éclat
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other
Sep 14, 2009 09:17
14 yrs ago
9 viewers *
French term

croustillant forestier

French to English Other Cooking / Culinary Menu
I got stuck translating a menu by mistake and I'm stuck on this item:

Pour votre plaisir, la tradition du cerf mijoté sa réduction de venaison au chocolat équateur et croustillant forestier en cigarette.

I'm afraid that's all the context I have.
Proposed translations (English)
2 +5 mushroom puff
3 +3 crispy mushrooms
4 "croustillant forestier" (crisp-fried mushrooms)
4 wild mushrooms in phyllo pastry
2 +1 game chips and other thoughts
3 mushroom snaps
2 mushrooms en croute
2 wild mushroom croquette
1 mushroom parcel
5 -6 crisp forest
References
'croustillant forestier'
- un croustillant forestier : des petits...
Change log

Sep 14, 2009 09:27: Tony M changed "Field (specific)" from "Food & Drink" to "Cooking / Culinary"

Discussion

jmleger Sep 15, 2009:
Cigarette It's a hard cookie dough rolled (and baked) in the shape of a cigarette (hence the name), served with ice cream for instance (gives your other hand something to do I supposed).

Anyway, and talking about cigarette-looking things, I am going back to my I am going back to the ten kilos of merguez I am preparing this morning. Cheers!
Mark Nathan Sep 15, 2009:
Crunchy game chips This is what I was getting at - something crunchy is often served with game (presumably to provide a contrast to the squidgy ideally slightly decomposing flesh).
Tony M Sep 15, 2009:
puff J-M, the kind of choux bun found in pièces montées is not the only type of 'puff' that exists in EN; a quite different type is indeed a very flaky type of pastry that breaks as you eat it, and is made with some variant of pâte feuilletée; cf. also the type of savoury cracker known traditionally as a 'Butter Puff' in EN, which is again made of brittle layers (though not much sign of any butter!); also 'lemon puff' biscuits, ditto.

In general terms, I'd say that for savoury dishes, the use of 'puff' generally implies that it will involve puff pastry (feuilletée).

Note, too, another use again, with things like 'apple puffs' (= chausson aux pommes), where the pastry is very much puff rather than choux.
Terry Richards (asker) Sep 15, 2009:
and the cigarette? All the "en cigarette" dishes I've encountered have been distinctly crunchy...
jmleger Sep 15, 2009:
Croustillant in French cooking is a layered brittle pastry (hence the name "croustillant"). "Puff" is what you find in a pièce montée or a religieuse or éclair, for instance, where the pastry is a hollow shape, which you fill with cream (i.e. cream puff). It is not brittle and therefore not croustillant. You have moved away from the idea of pastry and that's you right, but I would research this further lest the people who order the dish think they are in Gordon's Ramsay's Hell Kitchen on a bad day. (I love that show, btw. I think translators should be trained the same way.)
Terry Richards (asker) Sep 15, 2009:
Thanks to all I'm sorry but I can't pick a "winner" here. In the end, I went with "Crispy forest mushroom curls" which has the advantage of being as vague as the original!

Proposed translations

-6
3 mins

crisp forest

...
Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : I'm afraid that would be a non-sense in EN; at best, it might be 'forest crisp'...
3 mins
disagree Lianne Wilson : I don't think anyone is likely to eat a 'crisp forest', whatever one might be.
18 mins
disagree writeaway : literal but rather nonsensical in English
20 mins
disagree Colin Morley (X) : Sorry Jessica, but although correct literally it is a bit meaningless in English
1 hr
disagree B D Finch : Not even correct literally as forestière is an adjective, not a noun.
8 hrs
disagree Chris Hall : Sorry to add to the clamour of disagreement, but do you really imagine to see this written on a menu??? Like B D Finch states, it is not even literally correct - you have mistaken the adjective for a noun.
1 day 7 hrs
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4 mins

mushrooms en croute

I'm not sure about the "en croute" part. Forestier usually refers to something with mushrooms in.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : Yes, though I'm not sure just how wise it is to translate one FR term by a different one?
3 mins
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+3
10 mins

crispy mushrooms

another possibility. Wouldn't it be nice to have picture!
Peer comment(s):
agree writeaway : mushroom crisp. the croustillant aspect shouldn't be ignored
18 mins
thanks writeaway
agree Anne-Marie Grant (X) : or crisp-fried mushrooms
1 hr
thanks Anne-Marie
agree Carol Gullidge : without more context. And, for me, the only way I can enjoy mushrooms is when they're crisp-fried - otherwise I'm afraid I simply don't like the texture!
2 hrs
thanks Carol
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+1
19 mins

game chips and other thoughts

This could be a reference to the tradition of serving "game chips" with roast game. These are deep-fried slices of root vegetable, usually potato, which could, in theory, be rolled around a cylinder to make "cigarettes".
But as others have suggested, forestier is likely to involve mushrooms, so "crispy mushroom rolls/parcels" might work.



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Note added at 20 mins (2009-09-14 09:37:53 GMT)
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Or I like Emma's "flutes".
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : Not a bad idea, and they might be rolled up like 'cigarettes russes' / Sadly, all my cooking has a tendency to smoke...
10 mins
Thanks Tony, with this trend of "cooking with physics" anything seems possible - perhaps they could be made to "smoke" - delighting diners with a camp fire atmosphere.
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26 mins

mushroom parcel

Again...depends on what it actually is!
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : a parcel often suggests filo or some sort of pastry like that. but this is croustillant. so crispy, crunchy has to be there somewhere
10 mins
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44 mins

mushroom snaps

A variation on "brandy snaps". It gets across the idea of crispyness and the cigar shape.
Peer comment(s):
neutral B D Finch : Lovely idea, but mushroom toffee seems unlikely. If you know a recipe please send it to me.
7 hrs
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1 hr

"croustillant forestier" (crisp-fried mushrooms)

I would retain the French, giving the English descriptive in parenthesis. Croustillant forestier can vary from kitchen to kitchen but is basically a champignon de paris fried for a short time in very hot oil to give a crispy outside and a fondant centre.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : cigarette-shaped?
41 mins
neutral B D Finch : Not what our local bakers describe as croustillant.
6 hrs
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1 hr

wild mushrooms in phyllo pastry

Looks like a vol-au-vent to me
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2 hrs

wild mushroom croquette

http://www.herdaily.com/recipes/4865/mushroom-croquette.html

As I've said before, chefs are a rule unto themselves and the only thing to do really is to ask what it is. There is no shame not knowing what they're on about.

Here is my contribution, though I think it's most likely to have puff pastry in there somewhere.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : Yes, I think 'croquette' rather suggests something more solid, I feel sure it involves puff pastry
28 mins
I went with the shape rather than anything else. My contribution was just to show Terry what a variety of answers there could be.
neutral B D Finch : Croquettes are not made with pastry. The wildness is generally wishful thinking and the mushrooms from a mushroom farm, rather than a forest.
6 hrs
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+5
6 mins

mushroom puff

Well, 'croustillant' usually means something like puff pastry, it seems here it may be in the form of a 'cigarette' (cylinder?)

'forestier' usually refers to 'forest mushrooms', i.e. the kind one might gather in the woods, not your common-on-garden 'champignon de Paris'

In the absence of hearing it from the horse's mouth, that's about as far as one dare go, I think.

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Note added at 9 mins (2009-09-14 09:27:17 GMT)
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It could, of course, mean that the mushrooms themselves are crisped up, and so not involve pastry at all; however, as a cook, I find it hard to see just how one would go about achieving that (mushrooms by nature being rather flaccid things!) — and even if one did, i'm not sure i'd like the result!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2009-09-14 11:45:49 GMT)
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My French chef boyfriend has just said 'pâte feuilletée / champignons / lardons / crème'
Peer comment(s):
agree Emma Paulay : How about "flute" instead of "puff" - to suggest the "cigarette" shape?
9 mins
Thanks, Emma! Yes, I think that would be a good solution
neutral Colin Morley (X) : I don't think folrestier are normally cooked in pastry
1 hr
'forestier' can be cooked in anything (my local baker does a delicious pastry 'tresse forestière'); remains to be seen just what is 'croustillant' about it
agree Melzie : if your friend's right all this is, is a fancy oblong mushroom vol-au-vent. I do like Emma's 'flute' very much
2 hrs
Thanks, Melzie! Yes, I think Emma has it with her 'flute'
agree Linda Sansome (X) : I like the 'flute' suggestion as well. My local baker also has 'tresse forestière' amongst other delights. It isn't 'vol-au-vent' shaped at all, in fact. I have found a recipe for 'croustillants forestiers d'escargots', so will try & post that link.
4 hrs
Thanks, Linda!
agree cmwilliams (X) : yes, made with paté feuilletée
6 hrs
Thanks, CMW!
agree B D Finch
8 hrs
Thanks, Barbara!
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Reference comments

4 hrs
Reference:

'croustillant forestier'

http://emissions.nord.france3.fr/2goutez/recette_246.php

This is for 'croustillants forestiers d'escargots' and made with brick pastry. (It's finer than filo pastry.) I quote, "Les champignons doivent être croquant à l’extérieur et moelleux à l’intérieur."
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7 hrs
Reference:

- un croustillant forestier : des petits carrés de pate feuilletée, dessus une béchamel avec un mélange de champignons que t'as fait revenir avant avec un peu d'ail, tu remontes les coins de la pâte vers le centre et tu parsèmes de gruyère. C'est pas sucré-salé, c'est classique mais peut-être un peu costaud avant les tournedos...

http://forum.aufeminin.com/forum/matern2/__f47080_p7_matern2...
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