Martin Boyd Jun 2, 2011:

Alien Resurrection patinba, I'm not sure where you obtained your precise information about the current context, as the text provided by La Verdad says nothing about the foreigners being "illegal", or even that it's referring to a detention centre. If it is as you assume, I think it's important to remember that the detention of undocumented persons is a very sensitive issue. Whether we like it or not, the terms we use are never innocent; they are ideologically charged. To suggest that the use of "illegal alien" doesn't have a dehumanizing effect on the subject referred to is, I think, naive. Let's remember that we are talking about human beings here. As translators, we are inevitably called upon to make decisions that reflect our ideological positions. I think our difference of opinion here may simply reflect divergent opinions about the legitimacy and rights of undocumented persons.

Best regards,

patinba Jun 2, 2011:

Alien 5 But it is precisely the current context!! An official government text on a centre for the detention of illegal aliens. You are colouring a perfectly innocent word with unjustified prejudice. Too many SF books perhaps:) Of course, foreign national will also do nicely.nuff said.

Martin Boyd Jun 2, 2011:

Alien 4 I'm sorry, patinba, but I think you've completely missed my point. I have already acknowledged that "alien" is used in US official discourse. My argument against it is not based on whether it is officially used or not, but on whether it is potentially offensive due to its other connotations. In addition to the extraterrestrial association mentioned already, the Oxford definition of the adjective form as "unfamiliar and disturbing or distasteful" underlines my point that the term lacks the relative neutrality of "extranjero". Official discourse does not always keep up with changing attitudes towards particular words (consider terms like "Indian" or "coloured people" for example), and as translators I believe we need to be sensitive to the ideological baggage that such words carry. But even if you dismiss my argument that the term is potentially offensive, your own explications of the various usages clearly indicate that in official discourse "alien" has a rather specialized application (in the UK at least) that makes it inappropriate as a translation of the more general "extranjero". Based on these considerations, I don't consider its use here appropriate.

patinba Jun 2, 2011:

Alien 3 Martin, I think you are misguided. Ignoring the use in the US where it is absolutely normal (the IRS issues a US Tax Guide for Aliens for example), it is still very much in use in the UK as this entry from a legal encycolpedia shows, and is in no way offensive:
Alien: A person who, under the law of a particular state, is not a citizen of that state. Aliens are usually classified as resident aliens (domiciled in the host country) or transient aliens (temporarily in the host country on business, study, etc.). They are normally subject to certain civil disabilities, such as being ineligible to vote. For the purposes of UK statute law an alien is defined by the British Nationality Act 1981 (in force from 1 January 1983 ) as a person who is neither a Commonwealth citizen, nor a British protected person, nor a citizen of the Republic of Ireland. At common law, a distinction is drawn between friendly and enemy aliens. The latter comprise not only citizens of hostile states but also all others voluntarily living in enemy territory or carrying on business there; they are subject to additional disabilities.

http://law.jrank.org/pages/13865/alien.html

Martin Boyd Jun 2, 2011:

Alien 2 It's true that "alien" has been used in British legal contexts in the past (I believe it was used to refer not to all foreigners but only to people who were not subjects of the British Empire), but it has fallen largely into disuse (1914 was a long time ago). You're quite right that it is still an accepted term in official discourse in the US, but given the contemporary use of "alien" to refer to extraterrestrials, I personally find the term offensive when applied to foreigners. I think "foreign nationals" is the safest option in this case, unless the purpose of the text is to "alienate" the reader (pardon the pun) from the foreigners being referred to.

patinba Jun 1, 2011:

Alien A perfectly legitimate word when used in the context of legal nationality, also in the UK See the British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914, for example.