Glossary entry

Russian term or phrase:

закатывание в бетон

English translation:

fitting of concrete boots

Added to glossary by translato
Jun 26, 2011 15:51
12 yrs ago
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Russian term

закатывание в бетон

Russian to English Other History criminal
Постановочные «разборки авторитетов» и «закатывание в бетон неугодных» вызвали неподдельный восторг у гостей.

The guests went into raptures over the staged ‘showdown’ and ‘rolling in concrete’.

(Topic: the 1920s gangster party)
Change log

Jun 26, 2011 15:51: changed "Kudoz queue" from "In queue" to "Public"

Discussion

Sergei Tumanov Jun 27, 2011:
Что верно, то верно! :0)
Michael Korovkin Jun 27, 2011:
можно запЫрсто! Достаточно,чтобы передавало смысл традиционного мафиозно-бандитского стиля избавления от трупов, и звучало как слэнг, а не как статья детской энциклопедии
Sergei Tumanov Jun 27, 2011:
Так даже если и слэнг Автор текста не задумываясь скомбинировал два выражения в одно, и изобрел собственное. Почему бы тогда не скомбинировать: "закатать в асфальт" + "зарыть в землю" = " я тебя в асфальт зарою", например, и точно так же, свободно, переводить на другой язык фразой "утопить с бетонной гирей на шее"?
Michael Korovkin Jun 27, 2011:
Learned technical remarks and no less learned Oxford-style answers apart, perhaps ladies and gentlemen colleagues should recall that this is slang – not a technical translation, nor an exercise in classical letters.
Sergei Tumanov Jun 26, 2011:
В бетон не закатывают. Чисто по отсутствию технической необходимости. Что-то бетоном заливают. Закатывают что-то — в асфальт.

Proposed translations

1 day 2 hrs
Selected

concrete boots

"Concrete boots" is a common phrase in English. I'm not sure what verb goes best with this as a rule, but "fitting with concrete boots" could be one variant. In the case of the "party" in question and the mock activities listed, I think the noun "awards" would be suitable. Use link below to see "concrete boots" cartoons.

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Note added at 1 day2 hrs (2011-06-27 18:41:48 GMT)
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Giving someone a pair of concrete boots means a mafia-style killing in which a person's feet are encased in concrete before he is dropped in deep water to drown.

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Note added at 1 day3 hrs (2011-06-27 19:10:42 GMT)
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Slight correction: "concrete boot awards" -- used like this, singular will be better.

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Note added at 1 day6 hrs (2011-06-27 22:39:46 GMT)
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On second (third?) thought, I want to drop "awards" in my example sentence, because it's not close enough to the original. Google brings up examples of fitted, bought, got and even rode, depending on the subject... "You tell him to sign the annulment papers or I'm going to send a man named Vinny to fit him into a pair of concrete boots." http://books.google.com/books?id=l79yW5dl2q0C&pg=PA121&lpg=P...
Example sentence:

The guests went into raptures over the ... and "concrete boots awards."

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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "In case of a party, it was more appropriate than "concrete overcoat" or "steamrolling" - just because it could be staged. All other variant were also great! Thanks!"
+3
7 mins

concrete overcoat fittings

I already put that under your other question (as "fittings of concrete overcoats"). In a setting where this is being depicted for the amusement of guests, this kind of continuation of the standard "concrete overcoat" image into the notion of a visit to the tailor to have it fitted might work well.
Peer comment(s):

agree MariyaN (X)
1 hr
Thanks, Mariya.
agree cyhul
10 hrs
Thank you.
agree Laura Friend : This is a very interesting question (in spite of the lugubrious subject matter). Having thought about it at length, I like your answer the best!
1 day 8 hrs
Thanks, Laura. What you, Jack S. & I wrote are variations on the theme: conrete/cement overcoat/shoes/boots/etc. I just thought that working "fittings" in was an appropriate touch (for "закатывание", not literal, of course), if the context is a party skit
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+1
1 hr

wiping the pavement with wrongos

I would love to see you say that to an NFL player! He would wipe the pavement with you ...
www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message490314/pg1

In a real street fight, his opponent would wipe the pavement with John M. Latourrette's face. They would stomp the crap out of him. ...
www.bullshido.net/forums/.../t-47659-p-29.html

Ree -- well if it isn't tianna...want me to wipe the pavement with you again like idid at school? ??? - *laughs* you actuallythink this ...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej5Kyqx6FvY

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Note added at 1 hr (2011-06-26 16:55:21 GMT)
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OR: mopping up the pavement with the unwanted

... I'll be perfectly happy to hold your coat while you mop up the pavement with him. Heck, I'll even buy you a bonbon and a cup of hot chocolate afterward. ...
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.../NonActionGuy?...

I might like to ask them to step outside and then mop up the pavement with them, I can't do that. So I am forced to take their bullshit. ...
katiedoyle.diaryland.com/latham.html
Peer comment(s):

agree Roman Bardachev
1 hr
Thanks Roman!
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4 hrs

encasing body in concrete

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16 hrs

canning the no-no's in concrete

...
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1 day 3 hrs

cement shoes

Cement shoes is a slang term adopted by the American Mafia crime world for a method of execution that involves weighting down a victim and throwing him or her into the water to drown. It has become adopted in the US as a humorous term representing any exotic threat from criminals. This gives rise to the term of someone who "sleeps with the fishes", a euphemism for the deceased. Mainly used by the notorious Gambino crime family in the prohibition era.

Cement shoes traditionally involve binding or incapacitating the victim and placing each foot into the two spaces of a cinderblock, which is then filled with wet cement. Sometimes a plain bucket or box is used. When the cement hardens, the victim is thrown into a river, lake or the ocean. It is unclear how often such a cumbersome and time-consuming method of execution was actually used, outside of Hollywood movies.

A similar term is cement overcoat. From Wikipedia
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2 days 9 hrs

см. пояснение

Предложение целиком можно перевести примерно так:
Вариант 1
The guests were thrilled to watch staged "showdowns between ringleaders" and "steamrollering the unfavored into a tomb of concrete."
Вариант 2
The guests were thrilled to watch staged "showdowns between ringleaders" and "the unfavored being steamrollered into a tomb of concrete."

По-русски "закатывание в бетон" - от глагола "закатывать":
"утрамбовывать катком" (Толковый словарь русского языка под редакцией Т. Ф. Ефремовой)
http://www.slovopedia.com/15/199/1510448.html
"заровнять катком" (Толковый словарь В.Даля)
http://www.slovopedia.com/1/199/732102.html
Пример (там же): "Усыпь песком, да закатай"

Буквальный английский эквивалент - глагол
(1) to steamroller = to make level or flat with a steamroller; to crush with a steamroller as if to level
широко используется в образном значении
to steamroller = to overwhelm by using great force (WordNet 3.0)
http://www.wordnik.com/words/steamroller
а в сочетании с предлогом "into" имеет близкие по смыслу образные значения (не синонимы!)
(2) to steamroller = to bring to a specified state by overwhelming force or pressure (там же)
напр.
"The states targeted as potentially lucrative new markets - Louisiana, Indiana, Illinois - were either seduced or steamrollered into submission."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-387625/The-great-cas...
(3) to steamroller = to use great force to make someone do something
напр.
"I hate being steamrollered into doing something I don't want to."
(Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/steamroll...

Таким образом, предлагаемый перевод дает игру смыслов:
"закатывание" -> steamrollering можно толковать как
(1) неугодного буквально (катком) закатывают в бетон;
(2) силой приводят его "в состояние" "in a tomb of concrete" ("bring... to a... state by overwhelming force")
(3) силой заставляют ("use great force to make") его "проследовать" "into a tomb of concrete"
причем в последних двух вариантах не обязательно при помощи катка, что соответствует русскому "закатать в асфальт" (которое также употребляется в переносном смысле - как синоним выражений "сровнять с землей" или "стереть в порошок")

Перевод
"в бетон" -> "into a tomb of concrete"
иллюстрируется примерами из сходных контекстов:
"... you can include murder, as happened to Abraham Shakespeare, 31 million dollars in the Florida Lotto winner remains were found buried in a tomb of concrete."
http://www.clickbank-wizards.com/blog/page/257/
"Family members who spoke included the wife and daughter of Israel Greenwald, a diamond merchant who... was shot in a Brooklyn parking garage and entombed in concrete."
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jun/06/nation/na-mafia6

В переводе с использованием "concrete boots" ~ "cement shoes"
- искажается смысл, т.к. жертва лишается жизни при сбросе в воду, а не непосредственно через "закатывание" = полное погружение в бетон (+ вероятно, заравнивание катком)
- теряется многообразие толкований, т.е. "concrete boots" это слишком однозначно и "конкретно" (:-))
Кроме того:
"It is unclear how often such a cumbersome and time-consuming method of execution was actually used, outside of Hollywood movies"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cement_shoes


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Note added at 3 дн17 час (2011-06-30 09:21:35 GMT) Post-grading
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По-видимому, в пояснении выше недостаточно четко акцентированы коннотации глагола "закатать/закатывать" которые наиболее важны в данном контексте
Из толковых словарей русского языка:
- закатывать = "отправлять куда-л. далеко, в неблагоприятные для жизни места и т.п. за какую-л. провинность"
(Толковый словарь Ефремовой)
http://www.slovopedia.com/15/199/1510448.html
- закатать = "(перен., кого-что) загнать, сослать... в тюрьму, на каторгу"
(Толковый словарь Ушакова)
http://www.slovopedia.com/3/199/786870.html
Здесь очевидны
(1) "силовая" коннотация - "закатывают" в переносном(!) смысле не обязательно катком, но обязательно с непреодолимой, сокрушающей силой (система наказаний за провинности государством или мафией в этом смысле подобна катку);
(2) коннотация суровости и "окончательности" закатывания как наказания

Поэтому даже если "закатывают" в "бетонные сапоги", нужен эквивалент, который подчеркивает, что неугодного не просто всего лишь обувают в них

Иными словами, сама постановка сцены, где жертву "закатывают", т.е.
(а) ее сопротивление подавляют сокрушительной силой
(б) помещая в бетон, отправляют "далеко и надолго"
требует перевода соответствующим глаголом, а не безобидным "fitting" (не отражающим ни силу принуждения, ни суровость, ни окончательность наказания)

Если поздно менять сам перевод, советую хотя бы удалить запись из глоссария ввиду ее (имхо) очевидной неадекватности

П.С.
Глагол "to steamroll" в переносном смысле чаще всего означает "двигаться вперед ИЛИ продвигать что-то (в заданном направлении) невзирая на препятствия - как каток, крушащий все на своем пути"
Глагол "to steamroller" тоже имеет это переносное значение, но чаще употребляется в других (см. выше)
Т.е. это не точные синонимы
Так-то :)
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