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corte el machete / meter el machete de corte
no se observan diferencias genéricas
Apr 2, 2016 12:33
8 yrs ago
4 viewers *
Spanish term

AICM (Aeropuerto Internacional de la Ciudad de México)

Spanish to English Tech/Engineering Aerospace / Aviation / Space
I'm proofreading an English TT where this occurs frequently as a 4-letter word, presumably an initialism. And, since initialisms are arthrous, the translator has naturally used "the AICM". But every time I see it, I have this urge to cross out the "the".

For example, "The AICM should restrict access to ..."

Is there some rule that justifies my gut feeling? Or am I just wrong?
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 No definite article
4 The AICM (definite article should be used)

Discussion

DLyons (asker) Apr 4, 2016:
@all Thanks for the input. I still haven't quite worked out how this particular black box in my brain works and why it wants to delete this particular "the". Examples in the air transport business would be e.g. KLM, CDG but I've no idea if they're what's influencing me.

I'm going to go with my instinct on this one while acknowledging that the rules seem to be on James side.
Robert Carter Apr 3, 2016:
All good points ...but no hard rules here. We say such-and-such program is being broadcast "on BBC", while so-and-so works for "the BBC". I do like Phil's rule of superfluity, but I also like Charles' leave it alone rule, particularly as it requires the least effort if you're correcting :). Still, I agree with you Donal, something just makes me want to cut it!
philgoddard Apr 2, 2016:
I think there are rules even in the examples you mention, Robin - it's not wholly arbitrary. As you imply, it's partly about the use of two languages in one sentence, which can sound jarring. For example we say "the British Broadcasting Corporation", but we wouldn't say "the Aeropuerto".
Jennifer Levey Apr 2, 2016:
Conventions This problem came up regularly when I worked in-house for a web-known European organisation whose members are national radio and TV broadcasters in over 50 countries. The languages used in the organisation’s publications are English and French.

It was drummed into me when I joined them way back in 1978 that the correct form was, for example “The BBC is showing football on Sunday.”, but “RTE is showing football on Sunday.”. Likewise, for a couple of French-language examples, we always referred to the Swiss broadcaster as "the SSR”, but “TDF” went without the article for “Télévision de France”.

When referring to organisations having initialisms derived from other languages, the Dutch broadcaster NOS, for example, we would use the definite article in English but not in French. Germany's ARD was "the ARD", but ZDF was just "ZDF".

I still occasionally visit the organisation’s website, and I see that the use of “the” before “BBC”, "NOS" and "ARD" has become the exception rather than the norm. Times change. Conventions change. And not necessarily for the better, methinks.
Charles Davis Apr 2, 2016:
@Donal It's partly a reaction against trigger-happy revisers who seem to think that if they're not covering the page with red ink they're not doing their job (another mixed metaphor). In principle things should only be changed if there's really something wrong with them, however small. I don't think you should rewrite a translation that is acceptable even if you personally would have done it differently. But unfortunately it's often difficult to decide how far to go.
DLyons (asker) Apr 2, 2016:
@Charles Thanks. The "clear improvement" is certainly a good working rule.
Charles Davis Apr 2, 2016:
I'm not voting on this for the moment because I can't make up my mind. My waters tell me that I probably wouldn't use an article here, but I'm really not quite sure.

If you translate the words this stands for you end up with Mexico City International Airport, and you wouldn't add an article to that (which is more or less what Phil said). "The AICM" makes me think of some sort of body (the Association of Independent Cheese Manufacturers, for example). On the other hand, presence or absence of articles with initialisms is often just a matter of established convention. For example, to take a case mentioned in James's answer, I would certainly say "UNHCR", not "the UNHCR"; it feels right, and it's also what is usually done.

When correcting or revising I tend to take the line that you should only change something if the change is a clear improvement; if it's really 50/50, leave it alone. On that basis you could argue that this should be left alone. However, if you pressed me, I think I'd say remove the article here.
philgoddard Apr 2, 2016:
I didn't know that either!
James, one other thing: Wikipedia is not a definitive source of information. This article has been translated, sometimes imperfectly, as in "constant growth in demand of both passengers and operations". The references to "the AICM" are one translator's opinion.
DLyons (asker) Apr 2, 2016:
@Charles You're welcome. I was sort of hoping you'd pop up :-) Once again I have this feeling in my waters, but can't put a finger on it (to mix metaphors).
Charles Davis Apr 2, 2016:
Thank you for teaching me a word "arthrous ‎(not comparable)
(grammar) Of, pertaining to, or being the use of a term together with a grammatical article.
(specifically, of a term or phrase) Used with or headed by a grammatical article."
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/arthrous

So if initialisms are arthrous it means they require an article. (I don't think this is generally true, actually; they often don't take one even if they would when written out in full.)

Proposed translations

+1
30 mins
Selected

No definite article

I don't think there's a hard-and-fast rule, but I'd take it out, mainly because it's a self-contained placename that doesn't need an article. You wouldn't say "the Heathrow airport" or "the Grand Central station".

Also, good English should not contain a single redundant word, and this works perfectly well without "the".


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 31 mins (2016-04-02 13:05:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I'm still trying to work out what "arthrous" should have been :-)
Note from asker:
Thanks Phil - maybe "self-contained placename" is what's buried in my subconscious!
Thanks Phil. "initialisms are arthrous" is a guaranteed conversation stopper.
Peer comment(s):
agree Phoenix III : Even though it was voted on, I just wanted to say I "agree"
2 days 4 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Closing."
54 mins
Spanish term (edited): AICM (Aeropuerto Internacional de la Ciudad de México)

The AICM (definite article should be used)

Hi Donal,

I translated half of the document you're reviewing, and this issue came up for me, too. So I consulted my trusty electronic version of the Economist Style Guide, which says:

"definite article
If an abbreviation can be pronounced – EFTA,
NATO, UNESCO – it does not generally require the definite
article. Other organisations, except companies, should usually
be preceded by the:
the BBC the KGB the NHS the NIESR the UNHCR"

And since this abbreviation cannot be pronounced, i.e., it's an initialism, the definite article should be used.

I also consulted the English Wikipedia article for the airport, which uses the definite article:

"The AICM has continually improved its infrastructure. On August 15, 1979, and after about a year of remodeling works, the terminal building reopened to the public; the airport continued its operations during the renovation, which improved passenger transit with better space distribution in walkways and rooms.[23]

Due to constant growth in demand of both passengers and operations, on January 13, 1994, the Official Gazette of the Federation, published a presidential decree that prohibited general aviation operations in the AICM, which were moved to Toluca International Airport in order to clear air traffic in the capital's airport.[24]

Renovations to the AICM continued and on April 11, 1994, a new International Terminal building was ready and operational. It was built by a private contractor according to a co-investment agreement with Airports and Auxiliary Services."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_City_International_Airp...



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2016-04-02 13:37:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Know what you mean alright, it bugged the hell out of me too. But as soon as I read the examples of usage from the Economist (the BBC, the KGB, the NHS,
etc.), I just accepted it and moved on.
Reference:

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/30596/using-the-definite-article-with-acronyms-and-initialisms

Note from asker:
Hi James. Yes, I agree with all that. But nevertheless, I have this persistent urge to cross out your carefully reasoned "the's". And I have nothing to back this up except a persistent gut feeling (which is generally, but by no means invariably, correct).
Thanks James. You may well be right but see my note above.
Peer comment(s):
neutral philgoddard : Your reference says "other organisations, except companies". AICM is a commercial operation, effectively a company, whereas the NHS and the KGB are not. But most importantly, if you leave out "the", it still sounds fine.
15 mins
Well as I understand it, the AICM is a corporation, just like the BBC, and you always see the definite article used for that: http://tinyurl.com/z4cdr9a
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