Apr 16, 2017 10:48
7 yrs ago
13 viewers *
French term

instaurer une gestion collégiale

French to English Bus/Financial Management FR-LUX> EN-UK
I have found a number of translations for "gestion collégiale". I have rejected the obvious one of "collegial management", because of its specific use in the UK for management of academic institutions. Termium Plus also suggests "peer group management" and "plural executive", neither of which seems quite right and the latter does not seem to be a term used in the UK.

The context is a wish to change the management structure of a company jointly owned by two others, in order for one of those others to be able to exercise stricter supervision.

Discussion

Daryo Apr 20, 2017:
given that people don't always use terms in their strictly accurate meaning, either by ignorance or deliberately, I would always give priority to the context in which a term is used (or sometimes misused).
AllegroTrans Apr 17, 2017:
I don't think it would be right to "flavour" this against the known background of dodgy goings-on. Keep it neutral. The context is in the rest of the document(s).
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Apr 16, 2017:
Thanks BD. It was a littel ambiguous with the phrase starts with "puisque XXX".

For the record, I am 100% with AT on this one. "Collaborative management" is as open a definition as "gestion collégiale" and applies to a wide spectrum of business structures, not only associations.

I don't think it helpful to speculate about what was actually involved. It is either known or unknown. In either case, it is clerly enough meaning shared responsibility, shared handling and mutual observation in the management of the structure in question... everything largely covered in "collaborative management".

B D Finch (asker) Apr 16, 2017:
@Nikki & Daryo No, XXX is the fed up party and is taking action against YYY.

Afraid I don't know how they want to implement the "gestion collégiale". Companies XXX and YYY jointly own ZZZ. XXX have decided that they were too trusting and hands-off with regard to certain matters that they allowed YYY to handle. So, presumably, by ensuring that YYY and its directors can no longer handle things on their own, XXX hope to prevent repetition of abuses. If "gestion collégiale" is not a specific management concept/form, then I will just improvise.
Daryo Apr 16, 2017:
@BD do you have any details as to how they intend to implement this "gestion collégiale"?

If it's done the way the term suggests - make all the existing managers work together as a kind of collective body, they are not going to get very far in preventing repeated abuses!

Is one the companies that owns this company going to send their own people to work as managers alongside the existing managers? Or are they going to simply send their own people to watch over the shoulders of the existing managing team?

So far it looks to me like a situation where the two co-owners simply want to establish joint control of their common company [IOW I have the nagging feeling that they shifted the usual meaning of "gestion collégiale"], not necessarily take over jointly the day-to-day management of it.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Apr 16, 2017:
@BD Question Without the first part of the sentence, it could read as though "XXX" in the phrase "puisque XXXX souhaitait une modification des statuts de cette société en vue d’instaurer une gestion collégiale pour éviter d’autres abus" are being accused of not having trusted the others. Are YYY on the defensive? Are YYY really fed up that XXX asked for this?

It probably doesn't matter. It is still a description of what XXX wanted to have set up and, whether taken as a criticism or an accusation, it boils down to being a description of what was wanted by YYY.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Apr 16, 2017:
@BD OK, thanks. So they are wanting something more collegial/equitable/collaborative/shared in order to keep an eye on the "bad guys".
AllegroTrans Apr 16, 2017:
I know there is an unpleasant undertone... but can you really change the implied meaning of "collégiale"? It sounds like, despite the animosity, someone chose to use the more formal, polite word even though they probably meant "bring in the heavies" or some such phrase.
B D Finch (asker) Apr 16, 2017:
@Nikki To freely paraphrase and sum up the situation, as noted to AllegroTrans, it's something like: "the scum (who are supposed to be our partners) have been going behind our backs and lining their own corporate pockets, so we want a system that lets us keep the bastards under control."

Of the actual wording of the bit where this occurs: "puisque XXXX souhaitait une modification des statuts de cette société en vue d’instaurer une gestion collégiale pour éviter d’autres abus"
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Apr 16, 2017:
equitable? Hello Barbara,
Please could you post the sentence in which your term appears? One possibility which often works well for this term is "collective". From what you say, that does not seem to be helpful here. Indeed, I think that it comes closer to "equitable" (EN), in the sense of fair and equitable. That is inferred in the term "collégial" but that would suppose an inferred meaning in the original.

Proposed translations

+2
1 hr
Selected

to install/institute/establish collaborative management

I selected this from a list of synonyms, viz:

unified
joint
concerted
coordinated
harmonious
interdependent
reciprocal
symbiotic
united
coefficient
collective
combining
common
joining
team
uniting
agreeing
coacting
coactive
coadjuvant
collaborating
collaborative
collusive
combined
concurring
hand in glove
in league
participating
shared
synergetic
synergic

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Note added at 1 hr (2017-04-16 12:01:12 GMT)
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What is Collaborative Management? (with pictures) - wiseGEEK
www.wisegeek.com/what-is-collaborative-management.htm
Collaborative management is any management technique that promotes a sense of unity and teamwork among managers to combine their...

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Note added at 1 hr (2017-04-16 12:07:32 GMT)
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Leadership Ensemble: Lessons in Collaborative ... - Amazon.co.uk
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Leadership...Collaborative-Manageme...
Buy Leadership Ensemble: Lessons in Collaborative Management from the Worlds Only Conductorless Orchestra by Harvey Seifter, Peter Economy, J. Richard ...

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Note added at 1 hr (2017-04-16 12:07:57 GMT)
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Certificate of Registration - Crown Highways
crownhighways.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/CBR-652457-BS11000.pdf
15 Jun 2016 - The collaborative management system related to the provision of Highway signage and loop ... in England under number 7805321 at 389 Chiswick High Road, London W4 4AL, UK. A Member of the BSI Group of Companies.

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Note added at 1 hr (2017-04-16 12:08:24 GMT)
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collaborative management research (cmr) as a modality of action ...
https://www.essex.ac.uk/events/pdfs/Canterino-Seminar.pdf
“I was hired as an outsider to lead the merger of two successful companies located in different ... What followed was a one-year Collaborative Management.
Note from asker:
Thanks, I feel spoiled for choice! However, "collaborative" sounds a bit sweetness and light in contrast to the situation here where it's more a question of "the scum have been going behind our backs and lining their own corporate pockets, so we want a system that lets us keep the bastards under control."
Picking from your list of synonyms, "concerted" might work. I had wondered whether the source term was a specific legal form that required an equally specific translation or explanation.
Peer comment(s):

agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : "Collaborative" is a good match here. The whole point is that "collégial" is in contrast to what is already in place, apparently anything but! The FR terms seeems to be used in much the same way as the "coll. mgmt" suggested here.
5 hrs
thanks I don't think this needs to be overdone
agree Yvonne Gallagher
3 days 22 hrs
thanks
neutral Daryo : as a general purpose translation, why not - but this ST seems more to be about getting a grip on what's going on, not much "collaborating" around ...
4 days
I don't think it's the translator's task to change the term in this way
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks!"
-1
2 hrs

to establish collegial management

Note from asker:
Your reference specifies that it is for "educational institutions", which is precisely why I rejected this term in the first place.
Peer comment(s):

disagree AllegroTrans : Asker has already rejected this term and wants an alternative
1 min
agree philgoddard : Collegial has two meanings. One is a synonym of collegiate, relating to colleges. The other means "sharing responsibility." The correct meaning is obvious from the context. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/collegial
1 day 1 hr
Thanks! I don't see why Asker excluded this outright!
disagree Daryo : "... because of its specific use in the UK for management of academic institutions" - sounds like a pretty good reason to me, can't see any point in arguing against ...
4 days
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2 hrs

to establish an even-handed approach

Working backwards from this notion I've found endorsement of the idea
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/equally

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Note added at 2 hrs (2017-04-16 13:46:01 GMT)
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Although not in the impressive list above!
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9 hrs

establish joint control over the management

that's how it sounds to me in this ST - it's certainly NOT a general purpose translation
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Reference comments

6 hrs
Reference:

gestion collégiale : une définition juridique?

http://www.assistant-juridique.fr/association_collegiale.jsp

Avantages de l'association collégiale


Un fonctionnement plus simple et des membres plus impliqués

Si votre association loi 1901 comporte peu d'adhérents, son fonctionnement sera plus simple et diluera les responsabilités de chacun des membres du conseil d'administration.

De même, si les membres souhaitent tous s'impliquer dans le fonctionnement de l'association, l'instauration d'un bureau collégial représente la solution idéale.


Un accroissement du sens des responsabilités

Le mode collectif accroît le sens des responsabilités de ceux qui ont envie de s'impliquer. Le fonctionnement en est un peu plus lourd car il y a plus de discussions et il faut apprendre à faire confiance et respecter les initiatives des autres.

Mais il est aussi nécessaire que le collectif accorde une certaine autonomie à ses membres, avec une marge de manoeuvre limitée et une certaine tolérance pour les faux pas, sinon le groupe risque de s'auto-stériliser en s'interdisant mutuellement des initiatives.

Inconvénients de l'association collégiale

Si vous comptez déclarer votre association collégiale, la préfecture risque d'avoir des difficultés à accepter votre dossier. En effet, le formulaire pré-imprimé réclame le nom du président, du trésorier et du secrétaire. Les fonctionnaires ne sont pas habitués à enregistrer les associations loi 1901 sous une autre forme.

Certaines préfectures accepteront finalement d'enregistrer votre association loi 1901 mais d'autres refuseront, prétextant que le programme informatique ne peut enregistrer les associations collégiales. Il faudra alors insister. Un bon début est de demander au fonctionnaire de vous montrer le texte de loi sur lequel il s'appuie pour affirmer que la présence d'un président est obligatoire. Comme il n'y en a pas, il ne pourra pas vous le montrer. Si vous insistez encore, il ira demander l'avis d'un expert qui lui confirmera qu'une association sans président est parfaitement légale et qu'elle est dénommée « association collégiale ».

En toutes hypothèses, la non-désignation d'un président n'empêche pas de poursuivre l'un ou l'autre des membres du conseil d'administration pour gestion de fait au motif qu'il n'avait pas la qualité de représentant de l'association loi 1901.

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Note added at 6 hrs (2017-04-16 17:42:03 GMT)
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In the event of this being an "association loi 1901" :

http://association1901.fr/moments-cle/creer-association-loi-...

Organisation interne (3) : le mode collégial

BY LAURENT SAMUEL ON 26 OCTOBRE 2006 1

problématique générale (1),

l’organisation en mode citoyen (2)

Le mode collégial consiste à organiser une répartition du pouvoir entre différents groupes identifiés parmi les membres de l’association.

Faisant référence aux catégories statutaires de membres, les collèges peuvent réunir les fondateurs, les bénévoles actifs, les salariés, les usagers de l’association ou tout autre groupe de membre de l’association, selon les intérêts qu’il s’agit de représenter ou les dossiers à traiter.

Le rôle des collèges doit être soigneusement prévu : au minimum, ils désignent un ou plusieurs représentants qui vont élire un bureau de dirigeants. Dans ce cas, les collèges jouent le rôle du CA en mode citoyen mais il est possible de prévoir un – exercice du pouvoir qui ne soit pas démocratique mais reste pour autant équitable

Selon la formule choisie, la composition du bureau ou de l’organe dirigeant peut résulter d’un compromis entre les différents collèges ou bien, au contraire, appartenir en propre à un seul collège.

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Note added at 6 hrs (2017-04-16 17:42:41 GMT)
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See also : http://www.rhone.gouv.fr/content/download/2655/18646/file/ex...

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Note added at 6 hrs (2017-04-16 17:43:29 GMT)
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Or an example with school management : https://ries.revues.org/2486

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Note added at 11 hrs (2017-04-16 22:36:58 GMT)
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Other sources (FR) indicating application of the term across a wide spectrum of cirsumstances and business structures, not just the assoc' loi 1901 :

http://www.entreprisesdesquartiers.fr/pid14462/quelques-defi...

"Administrateur de société
Personne physique ou morale désignée parmi les actionnaires d'une société pour exercer une mission de gestion collégiale au sein du conseil d'administration"


A financial structure: http://www.montsegurfinance.com/IMG/pdf/Presentation_Montseg...

"Son équipe expérimentée issue de la Finance, de l’Industrie et de l’Entrepreneuriat, sa
gestion collégiale et sa culture du service lui ont permis de mettre à disposition des
particuliers, des conseils financiers et des institutionnels : une gamme de fonds
performants, une gestion privée sur-mesure et des services à forte valeur ajoutée dédiés aux professionnels"


http://www.h24finance.com/profile-797.html

"Historique : Depuis 1986, Rouvier Associés gère des capitaux pour des clients particuliers et institutionnels. Le modèle repose sur une gestion collégiale de la société et des capitaux confiés.
L'équipe de gestion rayonne en France et dans les pays européens limitrophes.

Type de gestion : Le coeur de métier est la gestion actions.
Elle s'exerce à travers la SICAV Rouvier, constituée de 4 compartiments correspondant aux 4 FCP antérieurs Rouvier Valeurs, Rouvier Europe, Rouvier Evolution et Rouvier Patrimoine.
Ces compartiments sont gérés par des comités de gestion dédiés qui rassemblent plusieurs gérants financiers de l'équipe de gestion.
Cette discipline collégiale assure implication et objectivité.

Politique d'investissement : La stratégie de gestion est qualifiée de "Quality & Value". Elle consiste à sélectionner des sociétés à croissance bénéficiaire pérenne assises sur une stratégie claire et durable. L'investissement est réalisé lorsque le cours de bourse offre une décote par rapport à la leur évaluation établie en interne."
Note from asker:
Thanks, this is useful in showing that the term in French also tends to be used for the management of educational institutions and so, that it might be being used more metaphorically than specifically in my text. That might allow me to use the directionally equivalent term in English, which I had previously rejected because of its educational context.
My Dragon is playing up again, the above should read "directly equivalent", not "directionally equivalent". Anyhow, me and my Dragon are knocking off for today.
Peer comments on this reference comment:

neutral Daryo : the ST seems to be about a business / a commercial entity
1 hr
Yes, I know, which does nothing to detract from the relevance of the term as applied to other business organisations.
agree AllegroTrans : association collégiale seems to be legally defined, but not gestion collégiale
8 hrs
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