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Jun 7, 2017 15:18
6 yrs ago
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French term

n’ont pas été regrettés par

French to English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters General term in an engineering history text
This is from a text on the history of the Paris Metro underground system. I'm really struggling to understand the phrase "n’ont pas été regrettés par leur voisinage" in this paragraph:

Le courant alternatif, fourni par des usines d’électricité situées en banlieue, et appartenant essentiellement au Groupe Empain, lui-même à l’origine des capitaux ayant permis l’existence du métro de Paris, était alors transformé en 600 volts courant continu à l’aide de « commutatrices ». Du courant continu était ainsi produit avec un rendement allant de 85 à 95 % selon les dispositions prises. Ces appareils trépidants et bruyants (70 décibels) n’ont pas été regrettés par leur voisinage, malgré les sons (sic) apportés à l’insonorisation et à la construction des supports. Les dernières commutatrices encore en service en 1969 pesaient de 17 à 40 tonnes par appareil en fonction de leur puissance ; elles fournissaient approximativement deux tiers de l’énergie consommée au Métro et à la ligne des Sceaux.

I'm already thinking that there might be an error in the sentence in that "malgré les sons" should read "malgré les soins", so it may be badly written, but it's certainly got me confused! Any help much appreciated! TIA
Proposed translations (English)
3 +9 haven't been missed
3 +6 were not missed
4 +1 have not been a great loss for
References
Usine d’électricité

Discussion

ph-b (X) Jun 8, 2017:
Jennifer, Thank you for taking the trouble to let us know that you couldn’t understand my comment at all. Let me explain. writeaway gave a two-part answer, one of which I believe is wrong. It is unfortunately the one that appears first and therefore stands out as the official answer. writeaway then qualified it with ‘or’ followed by what I believe to be the correct answer. All I’m saying is that there is no possibility of one ‘or’ the other here and that the first part of the answer is wrong: even though the French text is not well written, its meaning is clear (cf. my note to Sarah yesterday at 7.39pm). There is no place here for 'Assuming that goes up to present day' and this is all I'm saying. To be absolutely honest with you, what I can’t understand at all is that linguists can’t see the difference once it has been highlighted. ‘I'm beginning to wonder’ (to use writeaway’s own words). Of course I’m taking your comment literally, which is why I’m happy explaining again. If, however, what you wrote was a nice and polite way of saying « ph-b’s comment is a load of rubbish », then I just wasted my time. Bonne soirée à vous.
writeaway Jun 7, 2017:
I have only used the past tense I don't understand how anyone could suggest that I used the present tense in English. http://www.ef.edu/english-resources/english-grammar/verbs/
ph-b (X) Jun 7, 2017:
@ writeaway No one is 'accusing' you of anything - certainly not me - but I disagree (not the same as 'accusing') with your 'Assuming that goes up to the present day' (your comment), which in effect calls for the present perfect in English and also happens to be your first answer ('passive' present perfect), when, again, there is no doubt whatsoever that the tense used in French is clearly a past tense. Bonne soirée from a former Métro-addicted Parisian, born and bred.
ph-b (X) Jun 7, 2017:
@ Sarah I can only confirm that this text is badly written. In fact, something like Le voisinage n'a pas regretté ces appareils trépidants..., malgré... would have been far more correct and would have avoided any doubt as to which tense should be used in English.
writeaway Jun 7, 2017:
@ph-b I was/am working so I didn't take the time to read all of it. If the people who suffered from the metro noise are still there, it's possible they 'haven't missed it' since it stopped and still don't miss it now. If it's talking about people who WERE there and aren't there any longer, then it's all in the past, which is why I also included that tense. It is there in my answer. In any case, accusing me of using present tense is an error. There is no present tense in my answer.
ph-b (X) Jun 7, 2017:
@ writeaway I'm sorry if you disagree with my disagree but as I see it, your answer as it appears is wrong (grammar). There is no doubt that they're referring to something that happened in the past, not to something that is still happening. However, I too made a mistake: I misread your confidence level as 4, probably because of the number of agrees (in which case a disagree would have been in order, according to me) when in fact it's a 3 and I believe that CL3 shouldn't be 'disagreed with'. I'm happy to change my comment in that respect, which I just have.
Sarah Day (asker) Jun 7, 2017:
Thanks to both of you, especially for your lovely clear explanation polyglot!
writeaway Jun 7, 2017:
Agree with polyglot (and you) definitely soins. I used to enjoy hearing the Paris metro rumbling below the building I lived in. Guess those days are long gone.
polyglot45 Jun 7, 2017:
you're right about "soins" and the sentence merely means that, with the changes made, the people living in the vicinity of the metro and the electricity-generating plants were not unhappy to see the back of the old noisy machines that set up vibrations aplenty.

Proposed translations

+9
6 mins
Selected

haven't been missed

is my rather straightforward suggestion. Assuming that goes up to present day. Or weren't missed if they are referring to a time in the past.
Peer comment(s):
agree Mair A-W (PhD)
2 mins
agree Rebecca Breekveldt
2 mins
agree Louisa Tchaicha
14 mins
agree Carol Gullidge
14 mins
neutral B D Finch : Rather too much time seems to have passed for use of the past continuous tense.
1 hr
which is why I also said or weren't missed. /doesn't past continuous include the -ing form of the verb? https://www.englishgrammar.org/difference-continuous-perfect...
neutral ph-b (X) : 'Assuming that goes up to the present day'? n'ont pas été regrettées is a clear indication that we're talking of the past here. No doubt whatsoever. If we were talking about the present day > on ne les regrette pas/personne ne les regrette
1 hr
WHO is speaking in the present tense? Please take the time to read my full answer before slapping a disagree. I am beginning to wonder. Or weren't missed if they are referring to a time in the past so sorry, I was too busy to read the entire thing
agree Rachel Fell
4 hrs
agree AllegroTrans
5 hrs
agree Michele Fauble
6 hrs
agree Jennifer White : can't understand ph-b's comment at all. This is correct.
6 hrs
I think the confusion lies with understanding how we use the present perfect, which isn't a present tense at all despite the name. I guess I should have included my alternative tense in the answer line. The moral of the story: don't do Kudoz while working
agree David Hollywood : bingo
9 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+6
12 mins

were not missed

The text is so oddly written it sounds like a translation. Like "usine d'électricité" is obviously "power plant" (centrale in proper French?)
Crazy idea, could it be a poor translation from English or another language?
'Regretter' something could be 'to miss something that is gone, I miss the horrible noise' but that makes no sense. Or if my translation theory is correct, the original was 'they could not miss the sounds (they could NOT be NOT heard) despite insonorisation'

This is very strange, hope I was a little bit helpful.
Note from asker:
Thanks Solen, I'm glad it's not just me! I have already written to the agency I'm working for about the obvious error I spotted, but I will let them know that this is a funny sounding text on the whole. Maybe you're right - it could be a translation!
Peer comment(s):
agree janthenor
5 mins
agree Barbara Cochran, MFA
9 mins
agree B D Finch : Agree with the simple past tense. However, "usine d'électricité" is perfectly correct French.
1 hr
agree ph-b (X)
1 hr
agree AllegroTrans
5 hrs
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : I originally thought this should be present perfect, but it is describing completed events in the past and there is a marker of time ("alors") which, altho' inferred, sets this within the descriptive context of the rest of the paragraph : prétérit.
15 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
3 hrs

have not been a great loss for

my take

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2017-06-08 01:10:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Erratum: A GREAT LOSS TO instead of a great loss for
Peer comment(s):
agree AllegroTrans
2 hrs
Thanks!
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

Usine d’électricité

This is perfectly good French and is not the same as a "centrale".

"Usine d’électricité de Metz, fournisseur historique d’électricité depuis 1901 sur sa concession de 142 communes, est la 1ère régie municipale en France dans le domaine de l’électricité. Elle a franchi le cap des 150 000 contrats d’électricité en 2006. Dotée d’une centrale de cogénération et de trois centrales hydrauliques placées au fil de la Moselle, ces dernières produisent 100% d’énergie renouvelable, certifiées par l’organisme indépendant Obersv’Er."
Reference:

http://www.energiemoinschere.com/liste-operateur-residentiel.html

Something went wrong...
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