Feb 20, 2018 14:42
6 yrs ago
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French term

auteur du placement dans le statut de la copropriété

French to English Law/Patents Real Estate
Règlement de Copropriété

This is a block of flats which is being converted from existing buildings (not flats) with a lot of new building involved.

"Ci-après dénommée « L’auteur du placement dans le statut de la copropriété » ou « la requérante »."

"L’application du régime de la copropriété n’aura pas pour effet de mettre fin aux réserves expresse faites présentement par l’auteur du placement dans le statut, à savoir : ... "

"Le Syndicat des copropriétaires se trouvera valablement engagé par les actes passés préalablement à la naissance de la copropriété et très spécialement ceux concernant tous contrats de prestations de services et/ou conventions d’exploitation, soit par l’auteur du placement dans le statut de la copropriété, soit par le syndic provisoire nommé, pour les besoins de l’administration et de la gestion ultérieures de l’immeuble, tels que les contrats d’abonnement relatifs à l’eau, à l’électricité, au téléphone, au câble, les contrats relatifs au personnel de la copropriété, les contrats de location de compteurs, les contrats d’assurance incendie et multirisques habitations, les contrats de prestations pour la sécurité, le gardiennage notamment."

"Les frais, droits, émoluments et honoraires des présentes et de leurs suites sont à la charge de l’auteur du placement dans le statut de la copropriété, lequel s’oblige à les acquitter, sauf prise en charge de ces frais par les acquéreurs de lots stipulée dans les actes de vente de ces lots et/ou au cahier annexe des conditions des ventes l’accompagnant."

... this is clearly the developer. But this is an odd phrase. How can you "invest" in a "status" of anything? Also I note a slight ambiguity hanging over the word "copropriété" in this expression: it could be an epithet, "status of co-ownership"... but it could just about be the noun, i.e. the actual legal construct which is to be created: so "status of the condominium".

However, the phrase used by the relevant law, referred to in the document, militates in favour of the former: Loi n° 65-557 du 10 juillet 1965 fixant le statut de la copropriété des immeubles bâtis. (https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=LEGIT...

Googling I found very few instances of the actual phrase. I'm tempted to just put "developer" in fact (although maître d'ouvrage crops up once or twice in the document).

Since the French refers to an investor it'd obviously be nice if a phrase suggestive of investment (which obviously is needed to develop a building!) could be rustled up.

Discussion

AllegroTrans Mar 1, 2018:
Most EN-spkg Europeans (even lawyers) would not understand "condominium" it's so US
Mpoma (asker) Feb 21, 2018:
Condominium @Allegro... I regularly use this word, having struggled with what to put for years! I use it only when the French clearly means a countable noun and a legal entity in its own right. There is no equivalent (yet) to this in UK law: Commonhold is a recent invention and is actually a legal *status* which applies to individual flats. Whereas "une copropriété" is created and can be abolished. There are hundreds of discussions on the term in these archives...
Daryo Feb 21, 2018:
as a point of method for the purpose of this document the party qualified as being "la requérante" is defined by what it is requesting: "placer [la propriété/l'immeuble] dans le statut [juridique] de la copropriété", NOT by its name nor by some other role that it may be also playing in the whole story (new/old owner ...).

Even if we know who this party is, it's not a good idea to just instead put the name of that party.

As a parallel, if the ST says "the driver of this vehicle" even if we know for sure that Mike or John is the driver, the translation still has to be "le conducteur de ce véhicule".
AllegroTrans Feb 21, 2018:
@ Phil and Chris I don't think we can assume that the developer created the status of co-ownership (I personally would not use 'condominium' for UK/European English); it could for example be the original owner; i.e. he/she/it buys the entire development then splits it into co-ownership units.
Daryo Feb 20, 2018:
that's the idea! "the party responsible for putting the whole shenanigans [this whole development / property] into a formal status of co-ownership [presumably by changing the sole ownership of the developer into co-ownership of smaller lots to be sold to future co-owners - dividing the Land registry entry in lots of smaller entries/titles - one per flat, with all the attached "covenants" - restrictions on allowed future use]"

You clarified a point that initially wasn't obvious - it's about turning one single property into lot of lots in co-ownership, not about adding a new property to some existing "copropriété".

the only part left is to translate this into appropriate legalese ... as short as possible, but without losing any meaning for the sake of "nice style" ...
philgoddard Feb 20, 2018:
I wish all askers thought through their questions as intelligently as you have!

I think your "shenanigans" suggestion is correct, though obviously without using that word. It appears to mean the creator of the condominium, ie the party who turns a heap of bricks and mortar into a corporation. Any literal translation would sound very odd, and I think you'd be justified in saying "developer".
Mpoma (asker) Feb 20, 2018:
this sort of thing? "the party responsible for putting the whole shenanigans into a formal status of co-ownership"?
Mpoma (asker) Feb 20, 2018:
thanks OK, the title is "ÉTAT DESCRIPTIF DE DIVISION - RÈGLEMENT DE COPROPRIÉTÉ"... so yes, it's about the lots in the property - but it also describes how the builder-vendor will kind of "kick off" the hand-over to the temporary syndic, to be followed by the buyers of flats by choosing another syndic, if they want (as soon as at least 2 people have bought flats).

The requérante is the developer, who is currently about to sign this document with the notary. It's a very long document (27k words). The "Règlement" part goes into lots of detail about what owners are allowed to do (e.g. consolidating lots if they own adjacent ones). But also about not hanging linen on balconies, so it does really include the kind of things you find in RdCs...

"the basic idea of "L’auteur du placement dans le statut de la copropriété" is roughly clear" --- er, OK: care to say what you suggestion is? If you don't think "placement" means investment I'd be very interested to hear your suggestion.
Daryo Feb 20, 2018:
so far, more or less sure ... this instance of "placement" has nothing to do with any kind of investment

this instance of "statut" has nothing to do with any kind of act / document

but more context is needed, to better understand the whole document.

« la requérante » => who is asking what from whom?

Normally, "Le Règlement de Copropriété" is between existing co-owners, so what a party called "la requérante" is doing exactly in this story?

"les actes passés préalablement à la naissance de la copropriété" = is this the act creating "la Copropriété" or is a property being added to an already existing "Copropriété"?

the basic idea of "L’auteur du placement dans le statut de la copropriété" is roughly clear, but small details matter to get it right.

Mpoma (asker) Feb 20, 2018:
constitution? I note that Bridge has this word as one poss. for "statut"... "investor in the constitution of the condominium"... ? But I'm highly doubtful because "constitution" in the sense given by Bridge means a document, rather than the action of creating something.

Proposed translations

+2
5 hrs
Selected

the party placing the property in [the legal status of] co-ownership

longer version:

the party requesting the change of the legal status of the property into co-ownership

some better wording is not excluded, thus only CL3, but sure of the meaning.
Peer comment(s):

agree Anne Bohy
1 hr
Merci!
agree AllegroTrans : agree, but I don't think we can use 'developer' ; might have been the original owner
3 hrs
I never suggested using "developer" (even if this "requesting party" probably is the developer) - doesn't matter who this "party" is, this is how it is described in the ST and the translation should stick to reproducing the definition. Thanks!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks... "
9 hrs

the initiator of the status of co-ownership property

A stab at something formal


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Note added at 10 hrs (2018-02-21 00:42:30 GMT)
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This is probably obvious:

La copropriété est définie comme étant « tout immeuble bâti ou groupe d'immeubles bâtis dont la propriété est répartie, entre plusieurs personnes, par lots comprenant chacun une partie privative et une quote-part de parties communes. » par la loi 65-557 du 10 juillet 1965.
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