Sep 10, 2018 19:24
5 yrs ago
3 viewers *
French term
Canada
Finding "le mot juste"
Native in: French
Works in: English to French, French to English
Remise exécutoire d'office
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
Asylum application
I am translating some documents for an asylum claim. The full sentence says: "Si l'État saisi reconnaît sa responsabilité dans l'examen de cette demande, vous ferez l'objet d'une remise exécutoire d'office aux autorités compétentes de cet État à l'occasion de votre prochaine présentation à la préfecture."
Thank you in advance for your help.
Sophie
Thank you in advance for your help.
Sophie
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Sep 10, 2018 19:53: Yolanda Broad changed "Term asked" from "Remise exécutoire d\\\'office" to "Remise exécutoire d\'office "
Proposed translations
+2
13 hrs
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Native in English
Works in field
Psychologist, Court-certified legal
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
451
French term (edited):
faire l\'objet d\'une remise exécutoire d\'office
Selected
to be handed over immediately and automatically to...
lly
Explanation:
"Remettre" (remise) means to hand over here. Thus, it means that the individual concerned will be automatically handed over to the appropriate authority in the set of circumstances described in the text.
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Note added at 12 hrs (2018-09-11 08:18:53 GMT)
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See B.1 et A.2(b) here: http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/remettre
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Note added at 12 hrs (2018-09-11 08:20:44 GMT)
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https://journals.openedition.org/remi/973
Le 30 septembre 2003, un Arménien s’est vu remettre par le préfet du Rhône un arrêté de remise aux autorités autrichiennes ; sa demande d’asile devait être examinée dans ce pays alors que sa femme était sur le point d’accoucher en France. Le 25 novembre, le Conseil d’État a reconnu que le préfet avait « porté une atteinte grave et manifestement illégale » au droit au respect de la vie familiale ou au droit de bénéficier d’une procédure d’examen conforme aux garanties qui doivent s’y attacher [35].
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Note added at 12 hrs (2018-09-11 08:22:31 GMT)
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https://www.solutions-numeriques.com/lun-des-suspects-du-pir...
(AFP) – Un ressortissant russe suspecté d’avoir participé en 2014 au piratage massif de plusieurs grandes institutions financières américaines, dont la banque JPMorgan Chase, a été remis aux autorités américaines par la Géorgie, où il avait été interpellé.
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Note added at 12 hrs (2018-09-11 08:24:39 GMT)
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http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/14543562.UPDATE__Young_woma...
A YOUNG woman believed to be an illegal migrant has been detained by police after she was found in the back of a lorry.
Two drivers of a lorry carrying cargo from the Czech Republic to Oxford told the Mail about the moment they heard knocking coming from inside the back of their vehicle.
The woman has now been handed over to the UK border agency, police said.
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Note added at 13 hrs (2018-09-11 08:28:23 GMT)
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I ought to have demonstrated less haste in a 5/5 confidence level, something I seldom use, as absolute certainty in language is rare. However, although I am on a 5/5 for the term "to hand over" for "remise" here, and that "automatically" is an accurate translation of "d'emblée" here, I have overlooked the translation of "exécutoire", which means immediately, notwithstanding any intention to appeal, for example.
SPlit infinitives are going out of fashion, but it is likely that instead of piling up terms ending in "-ly" that it would be expressed as follows:
"to be automatically handed over immediately to..."
I've put a more realistic confidence level as other phrasings are possible.
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Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2018-09-11 20:54:15 GMT)
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exécutoire, enforceable and forced
On the matter of "exécutoire", I like Gareth's "enforceable", a common choice for this term. it works here in meaning. Something that is "exécutoire" can be applied as of now, notwithstanding any other stuff that may be going on in the background, e.g. an appeal. Note that "enforceable", just like "exécutoire", means that it can be enforced (put into effect) without further ado, not that it must be enforced. Therefore, in my opinion, the term "forced" is not a good choice here.
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Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2018-09-11 21:01:02 GMT)
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Source : Voabulaire juridique, de gérard Cornu, PUF, 2011., p. 429.
"exécutoire (d'un jugement)
Décision de justice qui peut être mise à exécution forcée (aux conditions de la loi, aux jours et heures autorisés, sur présentation revêtue de la formule exécutoire, etc.), soit parce qu'elle n'est pas (ou plus) susceptible d'un recours suspensif d'exécution (on dit alors qu'elle a - ou qu'elle passe en - force de chose jugée), soit parce qu'elle est assortie de l'exécution provisoire."
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Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2018-09-11 21:02:59 GMT)
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In this context, the term we are discussing appears in a phrase on an application for asylum. It is not a judgment. However, I find this extract from Cornu helpful.
Explanation:
"Remettre" (remise) means to hand over here. Thus, it means that the individual concerned will be automatically handed over to the appropriate authority in the set of circumstances described in the text.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2018-09-11 08:18:53 GMT)
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See B.1 et A.2(b) here: http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/remettre
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2018-09-11 08:20:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
https://journals.openedition.org/remi/973
Le 30 septembre 2003, un Arménien s’est vu remettre par le préfet du Rhône un arrêté de remise aux autorités autrichiennes ; sa demande d’asile devait être examinée dans ce pays alors que sa femme était sur le point d’accoucher en France. Le 25 novembre, le Conseil d’État a reconnu que le préfet avait « porté une atteinte grave et manifestement illégale » au droit au respect de la vie familiale ou au droit de bénéficier d’une procédure d’examen conforme aux garanties qui doivent s’y attacher [35].
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2018-09-11 08:22:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
https://www.solutions-numeriques.com/lun-des-suspects-du-pir...
(AFP) – Un ressortissant russe suspecté d’avoir participé en 2014 au piratage massif de plusieurs grandes institutions financières américaines, dont la banque JPMorgan Chase, a été remis aux autorités américaines par la Géorgie, où il avait été interpellé.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2018-09-11 08:24:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/14543562.UPDATE__Young_woma...
A YOUNG woman believed to be an illegal migrant has been detained by police after she was found in the back of a lorry.
Two drivers of a lorry carrying cargo from the Czech Republic to Oxford told the Mail about the moment they heard knocking coming from inside the back of their vehicle.
The woman has now been handed over to the UK border agency, police said.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2018-09-11 08:28:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I ought to have demonstrated less haste in a 5/5 confidence level, something I seldom use, as absolute certainty in language is rare. However, although I am on a 5/5 for the term "to hand over" for "remise" here, and that "automatically" is an accurate translation of "d'emblée" here, I have overlooked the translation of "exécutoire", which means immediately, notwithstanding any intention to appeal, for example.
SPlit infinitives are going out of fashion, but it is likely that instead of piling up terms ending in "-ly" that it would be expressed as follows:
"to be automatically handed over immediately to..."
I've put a more realistic confidence level as other phrasings are possible.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2018-09-11 20:54:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
exécutoire, enforceable and forced
On the matter of "exécutoire", I like Gareth's "enforceable", a common choice for this term. it works here in meaning. Something that is "exécutoire" can be applied as of now, notwithstanding any other stuff that may be going on in the background, e.g. an appeal. Note that "enforceable", just like "exécutoire", means that it can be enforced (put into effect) without further ado, not that it must be enforced. Therefore, in my opinion, the term "forced" is not a good choice here.
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Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2018-09-11 21:01:02 GMT)
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Source : Voabulaire juridique, de gérard Cornu, PUF, 2011., p. 429.
"exécutoire (d'un jugement)
Décision de justice qui peut être mise à exécution forcée (aux conditions de la loi, aux jours et heures autorisés, sur présentation revêtue de la formule exécutoire, etc.), soit parce qu'elle n'est pas (ou plus) susceptible d'un recours suspensif d'exécution (on dit alors qu'elle a - ou qu'elle passe en - force de chose jugée), soit parce qu'elle est assortie de l'exécution provisoire."
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Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2018-09-11 21:02:59 GMT)
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In this context, the term we are discussing appears in a phrase on an application for asylum. It is not a judgment. However, I find this extract from Cornu helpful.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you, Nikki. That was not an easy one and your explanation made things much clearer for me. :)"
-1
9 hrs
Eliza Hall
United States
United States
Native in English
Specializes in field
United States
Lawyer-Translator-Certified Interpreter
Native in: English (Variants: British, UK, US, Scottish, Canadian, Irish)
Works in: French to English, English to French
Related KudoZ points
:
145
systematic forced return
Not sure this is the official term used in any English-speaking country (I've seen "forced removal to" the third country used in the UK), but "remise" is return, so my proposal is sound.
As I'm sure you're aware from reading the documents you're translating, the basic gist is that if the asylum seeker came to Canada/France/etc. from a safe country (i.e. left her dangerous country, arrived in a safe one, and then went to Canada/France/etc.), and that other safe country "reconnaît sa responsabilité," then the asylum seeker will be sent back to that country to seek asylum there, instead of being allowed to continue pursuing refugee status in Canada/France/etc.
As I'm sure you're aware from reading the documents you're translating, the basic gist is that if the asylum seeker came to Canada/France/etc. from a safe country (i.e. left her dangerous country, arrived in a safe one, and then went to Canada/France/etc.), and that other safe country "reconnaît sa responsabilité," then the asylum seeker will be sent back to that country to seek asylum there, instead of being allowed to continue pursuing refugee status in Canada/France/etc.
Note from asker:
| Thanks, Eliza. Your explanation does help me understand better the whole context of the document and therefore, the meaning of this phrase. It never ceases to amaze me how, as translators, we are often expected to translate in a vacuum! (This job was given to me by a translation agency without any other explanation). |
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Daryo
: this is not a translation for "exécutoire d'office", it's more your comments.
7 hrs
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-1
17 hrs
French term (edited):
exécutoire d'office
immediately applicable / with immediate effect
parsing:
"remise exécutoire d'office" is NOT one term;
you have there two elements that have separate / independent meanings, that just happened to be together in this sentence, and even when used together keep their separate meanings:
-- remise [aux autorités compétentes de cet État ....] and
-- exécutoire d'office that can not be "split" without losing its meaning,
a decision / or legal disposition that is "exécutoire d'office" is immediately applicable - as opposed to decisions that are not immediately applicable because there is some kind of "right to appeal" to some higher instance. For example most judgements are not "exécutoire d'office" - there is a right of appeal, and ONLY after all avenues of appeal have been exhausted the decision becomes ""exécutoire"
"Si l'État saisi reconnaît sa responsabilité dans l'examen de cette demande, vous ferez l'objet d'une remise exécutoire d'office aux autorités compétentes de cet État à l'occasion de votre prochaine présentation à la préfecture."
=>
.... vous ferez l'objet d'une remise aux autorités compétentes de cet État et cette décision sera exécutoire d'office (=aucun droit d'appel / recours ne sera possible)
If this State (l'État - so it's some previously defined/identified State) ..., the next time you present yourself at la préfecture, you will be transferred to the competent authorities of of that State, with immediate effect
a rather euphemistic way of saying "you will be deported on the spot" to some other country that admitted having links to your case...
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Note added at 20 hrs (2018-09-11 15:59:23 GMT)
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"exécutoire d'office" simply means that the decision (of any kind - not only a judicial decision, could be a planning permission for example) can be applied right now, without any further ado. That doesn't say anything about needing or not any use of force to apply the decision.
"remise exécutoire d'office" is NOT one term;
you have there two elements that have separate / independent meanings, that just happened to be together in this sentence, and even when used together keep their separate meanings:
-- remise [aux autorités compétentes de cet État ....] and
-- exécutoire d'office that can not be "split" without losing its meaning,
a decision / or legal disposition that is "exécutoire d'office" is immediately applicable - as opposed to decisions that are not immediately applicable because there is some kind of "right to appeal" to some higher instance. For example most judgements are not "exécutoire d'office" - there is a right of appeal, and ONLY after all avenues of appeal have been exhausted the decision becomes ""exécutoire"
"Si l'État saisi reconnaît sa responsabilité dans l'examen de cette demande, vous ferez l'objet d'une remise exécutoire d'office aux autorités compétentes de cet État à l'occasion de votre prochaine présentation à la préfecture."
=>
.... vous ferez l'objet d'une remise aux autorités compétentes de cet État et cette décision sera exécutoire d'office (=aucun droit d'appel / recours ne sera possible)
If this State (l'État - so it's some previously defined/identified State) ..., the next time you present yourself at la préfecture, you will be transferred to the competent authorities of of that State, with immediate effect
a rather euphemistic way of saying "you will be deported on the spot" to some other country that admitted having links to your case...
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Note added at 20 hrs (2018-09-11 15:59:23 GMT)
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"exécutoire d'office" simply means that the decision (of any kind - not only a judicial decision, could be a planning permission for example) can be applied right now, without any further ado. That doesn't say anything about needing or not any use of force to apply the decision.
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Gareth Callagy
: My understanding of "exécutoire d'office" is that the action is enforceable by law (Larousse: "exécutoire: Qui donne pouvoir de procéder à une exécution forcée.). We don't know the jurisdiction(s) concerned so can't assume timeframes of the action.
3 hrs
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are you seriously quoting me a general purpose dictionary entry about only one half the term when nowadays you can find online tons of in-depth articles and real life samples about - the whole term i.e."exécutoire d'office"?
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| neutral |
Germaine
: d'office = Qui se fait par voie d'autorité, sans tenir compte de l'avis de l'intéressé. It's not "immediately"; it's without giving the person a right/opportunity to contest; automatically. See Gareth's explanation.// exactly my point. Please, open a dico
8 hrs
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what is relevant here is the whole of "exécutoire d'office" not each part on its own.
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-1
16 hrs
Gareth Callagy
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Technical Translator FR/ZH-cn > EN
Native in: English (Variants: UK, US)
Works in: French to English, Chinese to English, English
Enforceable surrender
Surrender definition : give up or hand over (a person, right, or possession), typically on compulsion or demand.
Example of use: "renunciation of identity than a permanent and enforceable surrender of rights to a legally competent authority ."
Source: Border Identities: Nations and States at International Frontiers
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Note added at 19 hrs (2018-09-11 15:10:14 GMT)
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To me "exécutoire d'office" in this context suggests "without recourse"
Définition d'exécution d'office
L'exécution d'office est le fait pour l'Administration de pouvoir prendre des décisions de façon unilatérale pouvant modifier des droits et obligations d'autrui, et de pouvoir les faire exécuter sans avoir besoin de demander le consentement à quiconque. En droit administratif, le recours à l'exécution d'office des décisions administratives trouve sa justification dans l'idée d'intérêt général, dont l'Administration est garante. En droit privé, l'exécution d'office n'est envisageable qu'en vertu d'un jugement.
Réalisé en collaboration avec des professionnels du droit et de la finance, sous la direction d'Eric Roig, diplômé d'HEC
Source: https://droit-finances.commentcamarche.com/faq/23788-executi...
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Note added at 20 hrs (2018-09-11 16:03:01 GMT)
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Exécution forcée / Exécution d'office
L'exécution forcée (ou exécution d'office) désigne le droit de l'administration de recourir à la force, sans autorisation préalable d'un juge, afin de surmonter la résistance d'un ou de plusieurs administrés à l'exécution d'une décision administrative.
Source: https://www.dalloz-avocats.fr/documentation/Document?id=DZ/O...
Example of use: "renunciation of identity than a permanent and enforceable surrender of rights to a legally competent authority ."
Source: Border Identities: Nations and States at International Frontiers
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Note added at 19 hrs (2018-09-11 15:10:14 GMT)
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To me "exécutoire d'office" in this context suggests "without recourse"
Définition d'exécution d'office
L'exécution d'office est le fait pour l'Administration de pouvoir prendre des décisions de façon unilatérale pouvant modifier des droits et obligations d'autrui, et de pouvoir les faire exécuter sans avoir besoin de demander le consentement à quiconque. En droit administratif, le recours à l'exécution d'office des décisions administratives trouve sa justification dans l'idée d'intérêt général, dont l'Administration est garante. En droit privé, l'exécution d'office n'est envisageable qu'en vertu d'un jugement.
Réalisé en collaboration avec des professionnels du droit et de la finance, sous la direction d'Eric Roig, diplômé d'HEC
Source: https://droit-finances.commentcamarche.com/faq/23788-executi...
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Note added at 20 hrs (2018-09-11 16:03:01 GMT)
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Exécution forcée / Exécution d'office
L'exécution forcée (ou exécution d'office) désigne le droit de l'administration de recourir à la force, sans autorisation préalable d'un juge, afin de surmonter la résistance d'un ou de plusieurs administrés à l'exécution d'une décision administrative.
Source: https://www.dalloz-avocats.fr/documentation/Document?id=DZ/O...
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: I like your use of "enforceable" here. I find that phrasing the sentence with a noun rather than a verb is more awkward in English. Something with "issue" would probably work, but I can't find the right phrasing.
32 mins
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Thank you for your feedback. I was just translating the term on its own but I agree with you that in a sentence a verb would be better.
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| disagree |
Daryo
: Quite remote from the concept/idea of "exécutoire d'office" + what they are talking about in this ST is in fact deportation - and all their "enforcement" is to just sit and wait for the person to show its face at the police.// it's not the same.
59 mins
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Thanks for your feedback. My logic is that "exécution d'office" can also mean "exécution forcée" https://www.dalloz-avocats.fr/documentation/Document?id=DZ/O...
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