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Double Pointers and Flaws
not contained in this Agreement, are excluded from this Agreement
Sep 22, 2018 11:16
5 yrs ago
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English term

conceive

English Other History
I am interested in knowing whether the word "conceive" can properly be used in reference to a man alone, saying (for example):

He conceived many children throughout his lifetime.

I know that there are alternatives (such as fathered/sired/had/etc.), but I am not looking for a substitute at the moment.

Thank you in advance for your insights.
Responses
2 +4 IMO, no
3 conceive of

Discussion

Taña Dalglish Sep 23, 2018:
I have just noticed something. Where has the edit button gone? Wasn't there a facility at some time (recently) which allowed a contributor to edit their discussion entries? Or is it just me - a glitch perhaps? Or it is a question that edits cannot be, for example, a day or two later, and must be done on the same day that the discussion entry is posted? The only option is to delete now. I can edit this entry which I have just posted, but not the ones I posted yesterday! Uuf!
Didier Declercq (X) Sep 23, 2018:
To parent (nurture, protect, etc.)
Just as to mother has stopped being common for to give birth to, I'd like to see to father evolve into meaning to care for as a father.

It seems only fair to mothers, when fathers can already mother a child.
Björn Vrooman Sep 22, 2018:
Hello Charles Thanks, that's what I wanted to know. I am wondering, though: If Amel said it's about "clinical-sounding" without any "warm connotations" (which I agree that "to father" doesn't have), couldn't you just use "impregnate," as Taña had indirectly suggested as part of her answer, so you don't make it about the children at all.

Best wishes
Taña Dalglish Sep 22, 2018:
(2) Continuation father verb
gerund or present participle: fathering
be the father of.
"he fathered three children"
sinónimos: be the father of, sire, engender, generate, bring into being, bring into the world, give life to, spawn; reproduce, breed, (literary), beget
treat with the protective care associated with a father.
be the source or originator of.
sinónimos: establish, institute, originate, initiate, put in place, invent, found, create, generate, conceive
Taña Dalglish Sep 22, 2018:
I am playing Devil's advocate here, and apart from words already mentioned "sire, engender, beget", etc., there are two others suggested here, "to spawn", and "to breed" (which, I say this jokingly, is how, we as Jamaicans speak: http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/lead-stories/20180407/jam... Personally, I am not advocating the use of the term "to breed" as it borders on disparaging, but for a laugh, you can read the link above which provides an insight into the Jamaica society. Typically, men will refer to their pregnant partners/common-law wifes, and if asked if their partner is pregnant, a man would say something like "Yeah man, she a breed fi mi - a accident yuh nuh! Mi figet the condum!". This is meant jokingly. I personally would not use "to spawn" either. Have fun... Regards.
Charles Davis Sep 22, 2018:
Björn I would say that having children implies more parental involvement than fathering them.
Augustus the Strong probably didn't even know all his children, let alone look after them, but the father in your second source did at least attend to their education and spiritual welfare.
Björn Vrooman Sep 22, 2018:
@Charles What about to "have many children (with)"? [as suggested by Amel]

Here's both "have" and "father":
"So, which king had the most bastards? That honor probably goes to Augustus the Strong, born a German prince and elected king of Poland in 1697. He didn't like keeping it in his pants, fathering a reported 354 illegitimate children in his spare time. "
https://www.ranker.com/list/leaders-with-the-most-kids/carly...

"He reportedly had so many children that he built two schools just to educate his own kids, as well as a church explicitly for his gigantic family to attend..."
https://www.babygaga.com/15-men-who-fathered-the-most-childr...

As has been said before in the discussion, though, "father" is just as (il)legitimate.

"Edward III Plantagenet (1312-1377) had many children throughout his reign."
https://digitalcommons.olivet.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?refere...

Best
Charles Davis Sep 22, 2018:
I mean, "he fathered many children throughout his lifetime" makes him sound a bit irresponsible, I would say.
Charles Davis Sep 22, 2018:
@Amel As you like, but to my ear there's actually nothing "warm" about the verb "to father", because, as we've been saying, it doesn't imply nurturing at all. I wouldn't find it unsuitable to refer to someone fathering children he subsequently murdered. Actually "to father" often has rather impersonal connotations. Frankly it's a bit difficult to think of a good alternative.
Charles Davis Sep 22, 2018:
@Yvonne: Thanks! Yes, I bet you could find the odd example.
@Didier: I did find one or two, to my surprise: in the American Heritage Dictionary, for example:
"1. a. To provide the sperm that unites with an egg to produce (an embryo, fetus, or child).
b. To act or serve as a father to (a child)."
https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=father

But in my experience definition (b) isn't used, as we've said.

Perhaps it should be: the idea that creating children is something men do and looking after them is something women do, which the different uses of "to father" and "to mother" seem to imply, is hardly desirable. Perhaps we should start using "to father" to refer to nurturing. But then nowadays we have "to parent" for that.
Arabic & More (asker) Sep 22, 2018:
Thanks I am aware that "father" can be used in the sense you have described (without meaning to nurture, etc.). In my specific context, however, I just don't like the way it sounds, because the person in question also murdered his children, and I believe that the author deliberately used a clinical-sounding word (conceived) to make that distinction, so that no "warm" connotations would be present. I understand that "fathered" does not necessarily have these warm connotations (again, depending on context). But here, I just really wanted to see if I could retain the word chosen by the author - and it seems like we are all in agreement that "conceived" doesn't work, so I thank you all for your valuable input.
Yvonne Gallagher Sep 22, 2018:
oh yes, a good point about difference between the genders as well. "To mother" has completely normal meaning of nurturing and sometimes jokingly written as to (s)mother (with affection!)
Didier Declercq (X) Sep 22, 2018:
Do they?
It's possible that some dictionaries do say that, I haven't checked. Because I agree with you, Charles, that to father a child is not used in the same way as to mother a child.
I admit that my entry was misleading, since I wanted to write fathering, not to father, in response to your entry.

Two interpretations: fathering as a verb, and fathering as a noun.

I will edit my first comment; it was not relevant to Amel's issue with "to conceive".
Yvonne Gallagher Sep 22, 2018:
@ Charles
Yes, agree that father(ed) as verb is used almost exclusively to mean beget (provide sperm to fertilise egg that results ultimately in a child) but it has been used in literature in past (I think) and here is a South African version https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09589236.2012.70...
and perhaps it is still used by some Bible groups to describe God's guidance but wouldn't be at all common. So could be discounted really.
Charles Davis Sep 22, 2018:
I beg to differ... To father is used only in the sense of beget: make a woman pregnant. It is not used to refer to caring for a child in the capacity of a father. Some dictionaries say that it can be used in that sense, and examples may exist, but it is so unusual that I think it can be discounted. To mother someone, on the other hand, does mean caring for as a mother and is not used for procreation itself. Perhaps this says something about inherited gender roles.
Didier Declercq (X) Sep 22, 2018:

I agree with Yvonne. Used intransitively, only a woman can conceive. Used transitively, a man alone can't conceive.
Charles Davis Sep 22, 2018:
Ditto Definitely no to conceived for a man; yes to fathered. Fathering children implies nothing about parenting; it just denotes the act of procreation. You can father a child one day and leave (or die) the next.
Taña Dalglish Sep 22, 2018:
Amel, I agree with Yvonne. "Fathered" does work for your context.
Yvonne Gallagher Sep 22, 2018:
fathered doesn't mean necessarily that someone nurtured or cared for children! It's used quite frequently just to describe the fact that some men had children (with various women perhaps) but didn't actually stick around at all to rear them! Sired or engendered are other alternatives though rather archaic https://www.thefreedictionary.com/fathered
Arabic & More (asker) Sep 22, 2018:
Thank you, Yvonne. I feel that "fathered" doesn't work for the context, because the man had physical relations that resulted in children but he did not nurture or care for them. I have other alternatives in mind but am just looking at "conceive" at the moment since this is what appears in a text I am working on (authored by someone else), and I don't want to change it unless necessary.
Yvonne Gallagher Sep 22, 2018:
You haven't given any context but fathered would appear to be best word. No to using conceive for a man. The definition is about the sperm fertilising the woman's egg to create an embryo and this taking place in the fallopian tube before the embryo moving to the womb after a few days. OK, so these days eggs can be fertilised outside the womb in a dish but I still can't see how that can be called conception on the man's part.
Taña Dalglish Sep 22, 2018:
IMO, "creating an embryo by fertilizing an egg" is under certain conditions, i.e. IVF, ICSI, etc.: https://stanfordhealthcare.org/medical-treatments/a/assisted...
Arabic & More (asker) Sep 22, 2018:
Note One of the "dictionary" definitions of conceive is: "Create (an embryo) by fertilizing an egg." I always think of a woman as being the one to conceive (meaning to get pregnant), but this definition makes me a bit unsure.

Responses

+4
17 mins
Selected

IMO, no

IMO, he "conceived" many children .... Under normal circumstances, it is only the woman that "conceives". So, no "conceive" cannot be used in reference to a man alone. But one never knows what with this world changing so much, and with the advent of horrible terms such as Mx (off-toipic - gender neutral), it would not be surprising (joke!).

However, in exceptional cases, here are some examples of "conceive", but always in conjunction with a partner, or a third party.
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/06/health/06donor.html
Cynthia Daily and her partner used a sperm donor to conceive a baby seven years ago, ....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_pregnancy
George Francisco and his wife Susan decide to have a third child, it is revealed that, in order to conceive, a Tectonese couple needs a third party, called a binnaum, to complete impregnation, and that the male carries the baby—encased in a pod—during the final months of gestation.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conceive

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/es/diccionario/ingles/conc...
4. verbo
When a woman conceives, she becomes pregnant.
Women, he says, should give up alcohol before they plan to conceive. [VERB]
About one in six couples has difficulty conceiving. [VERB]
A mother who already has non-identical twins is more likely to conceive another set of twins. [VERB noun]
become pregnant, get pregnant, become impregnated

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Note added at 22 mins (2018-09-22 11:38:43 GMT)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_pregnancy
Intersex people
Certain rare disorders of sex development in karyotpical (46, XY) males cause the paramesonephric ducts to develop into the Müllerian structures required for pregnancy, as in a female. While affected intersex women are infertile (producing no gametes), they may successfully carry and deliver a pregnancy with assisted reproductive technology (ART). There are also documented cases of individuals with XY-predominant mosaicism conceiving naturally, including a person with a 96% XY karyotype and ovotestes (true hermaphroditism).[17] There has been a reported case of an XY-predominant woman who experienced regular menstruation, two natural pregnancies, and gave birth.[18]

Transgender men
Main article: Transgender pregnancy
Some transgender men can become pregnant. This is possible for transgender men who have undergone female puberty (not taken blockers) and retain functioning ovaries and a uterus even after having otherwise physically transitioned to male with HRT.[19][20][21] While previous testosterone usage does not preclude pregnancy, it must temporarily cease prior to conception and for the duration of the pregnancy to ensure a healthy outcome.

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Note added at 2 days 1 hr (2018-09-24 12:22:41 GMT) Post-grading
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Thank you Amel.
Note from asker:
Thank you, Taña. Like you, I have noticed that the word is often used with reference to both the man and woman in a sentence.
Peer comment(s):
agree Charles Davis
1 hr
Thank you.
agree Didier Declercq (X)
4 hrs
Thank you.
agree Björn Vrooman : Nice to see some patois in the discussion box; it's been some time since I listened to dancehall. // I understand, but it's the closest you can get to Jamaica when you live in middle Europe =)
5 hrs
Thank you Björn. I am not very good at the "patois", and I detest the dancehall music, I am afraid. Not a fan at all! In fact I understand very little patois, but one thing, it is very expressive! LOL!
agree acetran
1 day 23 hrs
Thank you.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you, Taña - and everyone."
28 days

conceive of

Depending on the context of what needs to be said, this word could work if written as "he conceived of having many children through his lifetime." As in, the man has it in his mind, or formulates a plan that he will have children.

If it is in the context of literally, directly conceiving a child however, then the answers already given are perfectly satisfactory.
Reference:

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/conceived

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