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Fuera de pruebas
Dec 14, 2018 20:59
5 yrs ago
Spanish term

el éxito se representa en el dinero como fin e imaginario de poder

Spanish to English Social Sciences Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
Hello, I'm translating an editorial for a Psychiatry journal about social problems and corruption in Colombia and have come across the above phrase.

The context is as follows:

La "cultura mafiosa" manejaba e introdujo conceptos como: “el fin justifica los medios”, “el éxito se representa en el dinero como fin e imaginario de poder”, “el poder se adquiere por encima de la vida de las personas”, “la ley del más fuerte”.

Since the other "concepts" can be translated easily and idiomatically (e.g. "the end justifies the means", "survival of the fittest"), I wondered if anyone had any "snappy" suggestions for the one in question. The translator's block is real - my previous attempts have all been very literal.

Thanks in advance!
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 success is measured by money as (it is) the be (all) and end all of power
4 +1 Your power and success are measured by your bank balance
4 Success translates to money both as an end game in and of itself and as power/or the illusion of it
3 +1 success is measured in money as an aim and an image of power
Change log

Dec 14, 2018 21:33: Tomás Monti changed "Level" from "Non-PRO" to "PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (3): Charles Davis, Rachel Fell, Tomás Monti

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Discussion

Chema Nieto Castañón Dec 15, 2018:
...
It took me a while but I finally get the efficiency principle involved;
Success is money, and money is power.
Nice! ;)
philgoddard Dec 15, 2018:
Charles Your two suggestions are good.
Chema Nieto Castañón Dec 15, 2018:
Doesn't this work alright in English?
... money becomes a goal in itself [an end in itself] and a symbol of power
neilmac Dec 15, 2018:
My take Personally I would dump the whole notion of "imaginarium", unless of course you are Dr Parnassus. I think "the be all and end all of power" is a nice approach.
Charles Davis Dec 15, 2018:
On reflection, I think that Phil has a point and that for this to be idiomatic it's got to be simplified, even at the expense of sacrificing part of the specific meaning. The Spanish expression is very cumbersome and reads like what it is: something written by an academic. The crux of the problem is "fin e imaginario" and I'd be prepared to consider ditching it, along these lines:

"Success is measured in money, and money is power."
or even
"Success is money, and money is power".

OK, this doesn't say everything the source expression says, but how much does that really matter?
Tomás Monti Dec 14, 2018:
I'd replace "aim" with "goal".
Cheers.
Nina Clarke (asker) Dec 14, 2018:
Thanks everyone for your contributions. They have all been helpful and led me to come up with this:

"Money represents success and is both an aim and symbol of power"

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!
David Hollywood Dec 14, 2018:
in our day and age anyway... I think there are many other forms of power but sadly money comes into our current view of how things work
David Hollywood Dec 14, 2018:
sadly but the way of the world
David Hollywood Dec 14, 2018:
money is power and power comes from money
David Hollywood Dec 14, 2018:
I don't think "imaginario" = "illusion", quite the reverse...
Chema Nieto Castañón Dec 14, 2018:
Con Charles. Como idea no más el original viene a decir algo así como
money stands for success; as such, money becomes an end in itself and a symbol of power.

Imaginario is used here as "Repertorio de elementos simbólicos y conceptuales de un autor, una escuela o una tradición", en este caso en alusión a un grupo o a una población. There is probably a better translation than symbol but I think that is the core idea in this case.
https://dle.rae.es/srv/fetch?id=L0FsQnh
Charles Davis Dec 14, 2018:
To be fair, it's pretty unsnappy in Spanish!

Proposed translations

+3
1 hr
Selected

success is measured by money as (it is) the be (all) and end all of power

el éxito se representa en el dinero como fin e imaginario de poder

success is measured by money as (it is) the be (all) and end all of power




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Note added at 1 hr (2018-12-14 22:30:34 GMT)
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you might use "be all and symbol" of power

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Note added at 1 hr (2018-12-14 22:32:55 GMT)
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the normal expression would be "be all and end all" but substituting "symbol" for "end all" would be perfectly understood by native English speakers

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 4 hrs (2018-12-17 01:24:58 GMT)
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was involved in a book on this subject and I really think this would be ok

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2018-12-19 02:41:10 GMT)
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coming back to this I still think it's ok to put it like this

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Note added at 4 days (2018-12-19 02:41:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

up to you
Peer comment(s):
agree Muriel Vasconcellos : Nice!
59 mins
thanks Muriel but I know the way Kudoz goes and won't be enough... was a nice linguistic challenge ... coming back to this I still hold with my reading and thanks
agree neilmac : "... measured by money as the be-all and end-all of power"....
11 hrs
thanks Neil and ok with the hyphens
neutral philgoddard : I don't disagree with this but, call me oldfashioned, I like hyphens :-)
17 hrs
thanks Phil and hyphenated is much more like it
agree Gillian Smithers
19 hrs
thanks Gillian
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
8 mins

Success translates to money both as an end game in and of itself and as power/or the illusion of it

Hope this helps. I think the added part at the end may clarify the "imaginario" part (imaginario here meaning the outlook portrayed by culture and society, and the fact that is not actually the objective truth per sé)
Note from asker:
Thank you for clarifying the meaning of "imaginario" - that and "se representa" were the parts I was struggling with most! I like your suggestion of "illusion".
Something went wrong...
+1
22 mins

success is measured in money as an aim and an image of power

For the moment I can't think of a way of making it snappier without cutting it down so much that part of the message is lost. I'm not sure whether "fin e imaginario" both go with "de poder" or whether "como fin" is separate, but it doesn't really matter because this version covers both possibilities. "Measured" is a bit of a liberty, but I think it sounds more natural than any more literal translation of "se representa". As for "imaginario", I realise that it means "imaginary", not "image", but I feel that this simplification of the idea is probably justified here. In any case I don't think "imaginary" really fits here; I don't think it makes sense to describe monay as an "imaginario de poder".
Note from asker:
I agree that it's not particularly snappy in Spanish. In essence I just meant I was looking for a translation that read more naturally in English (all my previous attempts were terribly literal!) I also wondered about "image" instead of "imaginary". Thank you for your contribution!
Peer comment(s):
agree JohnMcDove : I would go with your option, adding "symbolic", maybe "... and aim and symbolic image of power"
9 hrs
Thanks very much, John :-) I'm not sure...
Something went wrong...
+1
1 hr

Your power and success are measured by your bank balance

Or how much money you have.

This takes slight liberties, but I think it sounds more idiomatic.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Charles Davis : It takes very considerable liberties // After sleeping on it, I agree you have a point. I should have gone further in your direction. But I'd rather not go so far :-) I should have made more of an effort.
19 mins
For once, I disagree with your answer. You've stayed too close to the Spanish, and your sentence is hard to understand. I feel that mine conveys the approximate meaning and is much clearer.
agree neilmac : CTC, especially as the source phrase appears in "quotes".
11 hrs
Something went wrong...
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