Jan 9, 2019 07:25
5 yrs ago
21 viewers *
French term

ministère

French to English Law/Patents Law (general)
"matre xy, suivant l'acte reçu par son ministère"

The text is a notarial deed. Does it mean - passed in his office or passed in his presence/before him etc.?
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): mchd

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Discussion

AllegroTrans Jan 16, 2019:
So..... at the end of the day, the "par son ministère" bit means nothing more than "by him/her"
It's not only used for notaries but for many professions, could just as easily be read as "par ses soins" without losing its meaning
Wordwatcher Jan 15, 2019:
Attesting
“recevoir un acte": the word “recevoir” is used merely because a person signing a notarial instrument does so in the presence of the notary and the notary retains the original – he “receives” it. The document that goes into public circulation is a copy issued and certified as true by the attesting notary. Sometimes, for the benefit of clients in the common law sphere, I translate “reçu” as “received and attested” to convey the idea that the document is received and retained, as well as attested, by the notary.
Wordwatcher Jan 15, 2019:
Prêter son ministère in the context of notarially attested instruments merely means "to provide notarial services". In many cases there are easy ways to translate the term correctly without translating every word. For example, Le fait de refuser de prêter son ministère en dehors ou dans le cadre des exceptions légales, facultatives ou autres peut-il engager sa responsabilité? Un notaire qui a reçu un acte, respectant de ce fait l’obligation de prêter son ministère, peut-il voir sa responsabilité engagée par ses clients alors qu’il ne fait que respecter les prescriptions légales attachées à sa fonction ? In both cases here, "prêter son ministère" can be translated by the single word “act” (“the refusal to act” “the obligation to act”). The question at issue above is whether, and if so in what circumstances, a notary may refuse to provide his/her services.
Interesting article at: https://dial.uclouvain.be/memoire/ucl/fr/object/thesis:3464/...
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jan 9, 2019:
"recevoir un acte" -specific meaning You might like to note that "recevoir un acte" has specific meaning with reference to "notaires". See reference post.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jan 9, 2019:
I agree with Ph_B By deduction and dictionary sources, you will find that the same term exists in English with the same meaning, although in English, it is now rare, except in political and religious service contexts. "To minister", means "to serve", "to provide", etc. (also think of "to administer") a meaning that can also attach to this term in French. ;-)
Daryo Jan 9, 2019:
fancy this ... https://fra.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-portuguese/law-general/...


BTW also confirms my first impression - what was "received" is NOT the deed to translate itself, but some instructions/documents that are the basis for the deed to translate.

A full sentence would have made it clear, without any need to play detective with the limited available information.
Ph_B (X) Jan 9, 2019:
ministère Term used for avocats, notaires, huissiers and like professions describing the fact that they're acting in that capacity. In this case, the deed has been "received" (?) by Me X acting in her-his capacity as a notaire (assuming that's what s-he is), which of course has all sorts of legal consequences. Cf.: Vieilli ou littér. Intervention, entremise, intermédiaire de quelqu'un, de quelque chose dans un emploi, une fonction, un service. Par ministère d'huissier. (TLFi)
Daryo Jan 9, 2019:
@ philgoddard looks like there is some kind of ongoing fad, to indulge in branding brains-twister questions as "Non-PRO".

In some cases you would be tempted to interpret it as "there-is-an-*obvious*-answer-that-doesn't-fit-at-all-but-who-cares / I-don't-like-this-question / ....", or any other assorted "good reason" to think that a question producing widely diverging wild-guess answers is just simply "Non-PRO"!

Surely mchd has the answer?

It is related to

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/1481...

but the answers given there are not much usable.

Also, one would assume the ST is about a "Maître ..." not a "matre"?

@ Kinia

have you tried https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=suivant l'acte reçu par so... ?

What are your own suggestions / interpretation of the meaning of this term so far?

Also, I have the nagging doubt that you are NOT going to be able to exactly copy the sentence structure in your translation, so giving the full sentence (without any confidential data, obviously) would help.

philgoddard Jan 9, 2019:
mchd As you've marked this non-pro, can you tell us what the answer is?
I don't know if this is relevant:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/1481...

Proposed translations

+1
10 hrs
Selected

see whole phrase

this is v. simple. Surprised some of the regulars here have added discussion entries but not answered.

"pursuant to the instrument executed by him/her." NB I presume it's meant to be "maître XY", the way you address a notary (and other legal professionals of certain categories).

The key to understanding this is that "recevoir un acte" translates as "execute a legal instrument", and ministère follows definition 1 as found in Wiktionnaire: "Emploi, charge qu’on exerce." https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/ministère



Peer comment(s):

agree Ben Gaia
10 hrs
Thanks
agree AllegroTrans : yes, as simple as "by him/her" - nothing to do with ministers of government or religion
6 days
disagree Wordwatcher : It is the appearer who "executes" the instrument, not the notary. The notary merely attests it.
13 days
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+1
6 days
French term (edited): Maître XY suivant l'acte reçu par son ministère"

Maître XY, in accordance with the instrument attested by him, ...

See discussion entry
Peer comment(s):

agree AllegroTrans : or "her", before we get screams of sexism....
16 hrs
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

9 hrs
Reference:

FYI on "recevoir un acte" - IMPORTANT

Not "pass an act" which I don't understand. The French term "recevoir un acte" when referring to a "notaire" the term has a specific meaning.

https://www.editions-ellipses.fr/PDF/9782340021204_extrait.p...

More context would help, and this particular point is not part of your question, but you need to understand it and it would appear that you are not familiar with the expression. It means "to receive" in ordinary French, but in this context it means that the "notaire" is entitled (has the legal capacity, authority) to draw up the particular deed.

;-)
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree AllegroTrans : Yes, IMPORTANT for any translator in this field to become VERY familiar with legal language
6 days
Something went wrong...
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