Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
principe certain de créance
English translation:
established existence of debt
Added to glossary by
Andrea Capuselli
Mar 14, 2020 02:41
4 yrs ago
30 viewers *
French term
United States
principe certain de créance
French to English
Law/Patents
Law: Contract(s)
In an appeal of garnishment
A distinction is made here between "un principe certain de créance présentant un caractère suffisant d'évidence" and a debt that is "une créance certain, liquide et exigeable". I need a phrase to characterize the first case, which is re-used many times. A previous response about this from Koen Roelens said " Actually what is meant here by "le principe", is that there is no discussion about the existance of the debt, only about the exact amount. Therefore it is well founded "in principle"...
Does simply saying "an existing debt" or maybe a "well-founded demonstration of debt" preserve the distinction between the two cases?
Thanks!
Does simply saying "an existing debt" or maybe a "well-founded demonstration of debt" preserve the distinction between the two cases?
Thanks!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 | established existence of debt |
SafeTex
|
| 3 +2 | certainty of existence of a debt |
Daryo
|
Change log
Mar 16, 2020 17:52: Andrea Capuselli Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
5 hrs
Selected
established existence of debt
Lots of hits on Google but I can't find any particular phrase used in English. Based on what I read, I'd go for something like this, based on my Proz reference
Reference:
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/772788-principe-de-cr%C3%A9ance.html
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: there ia a particular phrase and it's not merely about the existence of a debt, but about certainty
17 hrs
|
|
established = accepted, recognised, enacted !!!
|
|
| neutral |
Eliza Hall
: Why trade "certainty" for "established"? We have a closer phrase in EN (certainty of existence).//PS: Yes we do; see Daryo's link for instance.
1 day 8 hrs
|
|
Do we? I'm not so sure that we "have" a phrase for this as you say. And what is the verb or adjective based on "certain" instead of "establish/established" ? Establish is much more amenable. PS Asker chose THIS answer so why continue to edit your remark?
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "These discussions really bring out the many fine distinctions we need to be aware of. Thanks to all who weighed in. As there is disagreement I won't add it to the glossary though. "
+2
1 day 3 hrs
certainty of existence of a debt
principe certain de créance = il est certain qu'une créance existe en principe
■ En second lieu, s’agissant de l’action paulienne, la question des caractères que la créance doit revêtir pour autoriser le créancier à exercer l’action n’est pas clairement réglée. Il est acquis que la créance n’a pas à être certaine, exigible, ou liquide au moment de l’accomplissement de l’acte frauduleux, un principe certain de créance étant à ce stade suffisant (Com. 25 mars 1991, n° 89-12.267).
un principe certain de créance = it's enough to be sure that there is in principle an obligation to pay, even if that obligation has not yet materialised, the amount and the due date are yet to be determined.
the moment you entered in a taxi, there is "un principe certain de créance", even if the taxi driver didn't ask you to pay anything yet, and you don't know yet the amount nor when exactly it will be due.
CPLR 6202 subjects to attachment any debt against which a money judgment may be enforced as provided in CPLR 5201. CPLR 5201 (subd. [a]) provides that "any debt, which is past due or which is yet to become due, certainly or upon demand" can be the subject of execution. This business lease exhibits that certainty of existence required by the statute for a debt to be attachable. When the conditions in the lease are analyzed, it is apparent that the contingencies involved are insufficient predicates from which to conclude that future rent payments will not certainly come due.
https://www.casemine.com/judgement/us/5914c7ecadd7b049347e63...
■ En second lieu, s’agissant de l’action paulienne, la question des caractères que la créance doit revêtir pour autoriser le créancier à exercer l’action n’est pas clairement réglée. Il est acquis que la créance n’a pas à être certaine, exigible, ou liquide au moment de l’accomplissement de l’acte frauduleux, un principe certain de créance étant à ce stade suffisant (Com. 25 mars 1991, n° 89-12.267).
un principe certain de créance = it's enough to be sure that there is in principle an obligation to pay, even if that obligation has not yet materialised, the amount and the due date are yet to be determined.
the moment you entered in a taxi, there is "un principe certain de créance", even if the taxi driver didn't ask you to pay anything yet, and you don't know yet the amount nor when exactly it will be due.
CPLR 6202 subjects to attachment any debt against which a money judgment may be enforced as provided in CPLR 5201. CPLR 5201 (subd. [a]) provides that "any debt, which is past due or which is yet to become due, certainly or upon demand" can be the subject of execution. This business lease exhibits that certainty of existence required by the statute for a debt to be attachable. When the conditions in the lease are analyzed, it is apparent that the contingencies involved are insufficient predicates from which to conclude that future rent payments will not certainly come due.
https://www.casemine.com/judgement/us/5914c7ecadd7b049347e63...
Discussion
An attorney may communicate with a potential witness in connection with a lawsuit he has filed (e.g., in order to establish the existence of a debt), because the section was not intended to prohibit communications by attorneys that are necessary to conduct lawsuits on behalf of their clients.
To establish existence of a debt, taxpayer must show affirmatively that there was an agreement or intention of parties at time of transaction that money transferred ...
This section is amended to make clear that no attempts to reargue or collaterally attack the findings that resulted in a judicial or administrative order establishing a debt will be considered. With respect to debts established by a judicial or administrative order, a debtor may request a hearing limited to consideration of the issue of payment or other discharge of the debt.