Marlin31 Sep 22, 2021:

To me, a proactive self-starter or self-motivated learner asking questions is a possible variant.

Susan Welsh (asker) Sep 22, 2021:

More info Interesting and useful discussion. Thank you.
After I posted this question, I discovered that the author has a note (in my illegible scan/poor OCR of the book) referencing this passage: "«Он тот, кто спрашивает с парты» - строка из стихотворения М.И. Цветаевой «Поэт», где выписывается образ крайней экстравагантности, чудаковатости, нарушения всех законов здравого смысла. И среди черт наиболее экзотических, не укладывающихся ин в какие рамки правил и привычек, называется склонность «спрашивать с парты». А мы задумали специально учнть школьника умело (то есть зная, как и о чем) спрашивать. Дозволительна ли такая дерзость?"

IrinaN Sep 22, 2021:

@Susan "Blurting out questions" is widely used in various English articles on pedagogy and classroom behavior but mostly in a very negative way. Teachers hate being interrupted:-). As it turns out, not just in Soviet schools. On the other hand, this expression most accurately describes the act of interrupting and/or countering the teacher with the question of h/h own without a warning. Any kind of парта is not needed in English at all, IMHO.

Just my two cents.

Boris Shapiro Sep 21, 2021:

So, sorry for the educationalist rant, but I do believe the majority of School Ed. buzzwords, active participation included, to be a poisoned chalice rather than a Holy Grail.

Boris Shapiro Sep 21, 2021:

@Frank I still think some of the links you provided actually demonstrate that 'active participation' is, at best, a very ambiguous term. One might even call it a treacherous one, because it announces one thing and quite often means its precise opposite.

Take the '6 Simple yet Effective Methods for Encouraging Active Student Participation in the Classroom' article you quoted (https://k12teacherstaffdevelopment.com/tlb/6-simple-yet-effe...

The article talks of 'getting students to contribute' by issuing 'prompts' and using a wide spectrums of gimmicks like 'talking stick', 'tagging a classmate', throwing a 'beach ball' or running an answering lottery - all in the name of 'keeping the students on their toes with *your* [emphasis mine] questions'. The rest of the 'techniques' are equally and totally teacher-led and teacher-oriented: 'introduce', 'get responses', 'initiate', 'have all the students ... either randomly or in an order', &c, &c. The language itself contradicts the implied idea of having the students to proactively ask questions (that is, have a student-lead and student-centered education).

Susan Welsh (asker) Sep 21, 2021:

@Boris Good idea.

Boris Shapiro Sep 21, 2021:

cont'd So, what you end up with is, indeed, the plain act of asking a question with the added, but rather important, aspect of being unusually animated or insistent (to the point of flaunting the convention). Why not use something like 'the little quizzer'? 'Asking the teacher a question' sound tame and commonplace. 'Quizzing a teacher', to my mind, conveys something more unorthodox. (After all, the received wisdom is that it is the teacher's job to quiz - or, better yet, to prepare their students to be quizzed by the standardised test providers.)

Boris Shapiro Sep 21, 2021:

@Susan I don't believe it is a matter of asking with our without raising a hand, standing up - or performing any other prescribed action. In the old-ish paradigm of learning (the one Tsukerman is aiming to reform), a pupil did not ask their teachers questions, period. (Save, perhaps, for a permission to go to the loo.) This is why "спрашивать с парты" is called by her an 'extravagant subversion of common sense norms' (p. 33).

Therefore, the particulars of the action itself - e.g. 'without getting up' - are entirely accidental and need not be conveyed at all. Frankly, with the fall of Soviet-style rigid school discipline even Tsvetayeva's original quote looses its recognisable meaning (perhaps the reason why the author feels the need to explain it).

Konstantin Krayn Sep 21, 2021:

I agree that what Tsukerman and Tsvetaeva mean is not about speaking out of turn or being brave or bold or disobedient per se. As far as I understand, this is about survival of a student's inquiring attitude within education system tending to suppress their initiative to the extent of no longer being even willing to ask questions while learning even though asking questions is exactly what kids naturally do to learn, and rightly so.

Marlin31 Sep 21, 2021:

I think it may explain, at least partially, the meaning of the cited metaphor:
https://n-shkola.ru/storage/archive/1403694381-1805819478.pd...
К сожалению, существующая система обучения и воспитания все еще подавляет
инициативу детей: мы воспитываем их умеющими отвечать на вопросы педагога, но забываем о воспитании спрашивающего школьника, побуждающего педагога к совместной продуктивной работе.
Детские вопросы исчезают, если информация от взрослого систематически опережает детский запрос информации. «Феномен «Он тот, кто спрашивает с парты» относится к образу крайней чудаковатости, хотя
склонность «спрашивать с парты» является возрастной нормой развития детей» [5, 32, 33]. Диалогическая форма речи является естественной, первичной формой речи младшего школьника.
The Mikhal's explanation is right regarding the classroom behavior of the pupil.

Susan Welsh (asker) Sep 21, 2021:

Maybe something like "to speak out of turn"? Except it should not convey disobedience, but rather exuberance, I think.