| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | An Example of "Reader Orientation" Thread poster: Yan Yuliang
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wherestip 
United States
Local time: 00:34
Chinese to English
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| Don't always assume others are idiots | Sep 26, 2013 |
Yan Yuliang wrote:
Take a look at the increment patterns, and tell me, as a reader/bidder, which is more acceptable to you?
3,200, 3,500, 3,800, 4,100, 4,400, 4,700, 5,000
3,200, 3,500, 3,800, 4,000, 4,200, 4,500, 4,800, 5,000
Don't you think if that's what the progression is, there's a simple way to express it in English too?
| | | | Yan Yuliang
Local time: 13:34
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | This still does not solve my question | Sep 26, 2013 |
You are making the point based on the assumption that the source text is correct.
However, my question is still this: why would one deliberately make simple things complex? What's the explanation for this?
wherestip wrote: Yan Yuliang wrote:
Take a look at the increment patterns, and tell me, as a reader/bidder, which is more acceptable to you?
3,200, 3,500, 3,800, 4,100, 4,400, 4,700, 5,000
3,200, 3,500, 3,800, 4,000, 4,200, 4,500, 4,800, 5,000
Don't you think if that's what the progression is, there's a simple way to express it in English too?
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 00:34
Chinese to English
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| Logic and common sense | Sep 26, 2013 |
Yan Yuliang wrote:
You are making the point based on the assumption that the source text is correct.
However, my question is still this: why would one deliberately make simple things complex? What's the explanation for this?
Don't you think if that's what the progression is, there's a simple way to express it in English too?
Well, that is why I searched and found the Christie's incrementing scheme for you. But you say it is irrelevant.
Now think for yourself. What is the chance of Christie's putting erroneous info in their FAQ sheet also?
| | | | Yan Yuliang
Local time: 13:34
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | It is their very source text I am questioning | Sep 26, 2013 |
Remember I said Christie's is not a good reference, and I welcomed sources from other auction firms?
IMO big companies could also make obvious mistakes. If they lack a proper documentation publishing procedure, or in case of emergency.
wherestip wrote: Yan Yuliang wrote:
You are making the point based on the assumption that the source text is correct.
However, my question is still this: why would one deliberately make simple things complex? What's the explanation for this?
Don't you think if that's what the progression is, there's a simple way to express it in English too? Well, that is why I searched and found the Christie's incrementing scheme for you. But you say it is irrelevant. Now think for yourself. What is the chance of Christie's putting erroneous info in their FAQ sheet also?
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 00:34
Chinese to English
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| Learning from others | Sep 26, 2013 |
Yan Yuliang wrote:
Remember I said Christie's is not a good reference, and I welcomed sources from other auction firms?
IMO big companies could also make obvious mistakes. If they lack a proper documentation publishing procedure, or in case of emergency.
Well, Sotheby's practice of rounding up is not convincing enough for you either. IMO, you need to learn what "rounding numbers up and down" in English means.
Yuliang, that's all I'm willing to discuss on this. If you don't like to listen to others' opinion, it's simple. Just say so.
| | | | Yan Yuliang
Local time: 13:34
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | If we start with 200, and then 300 for the rest, isn't this called round-up? | Sep 26, 2013 |
Wherestip,
Only that we cannot convince each other, does not mean I am not willing to listen.
You point out here that IMO, the 200/500/800 incrementing scheme basically refers to the pattern within a 1000 range.
However, this is "IMO", which means this is your interpretation of Sotheby's rules. The reason I disagree is we are talking about 3,000-5,000, so rounding up in the middle of this range looks wired. You either round up at the beginning, or at the end. I've... See more Wherestip,
Only that we cannot convince each other, does not mean I am not willing to listen.
You point out here that IMO, the 200/500/800 incrementing scheme basically refers to the pattern within a 1000 range.
However, this is "IMO", which means this is your interpretation of Sotheby's rules. The reason I disagree is we are talking about 3,000-5,000, so rounding up in the middle of this range looks wired. You either round up at the beginning, or at the end. I've never seen round-up in the middle.
wherestip wrote: Yuliang, Here's something from Sotheby's ... http://www.sothebys.com/en/Glossary.html Bid Increment The amount by which the auctioneer increases the bidding. In general, the auctioneer will request bids of about 10% higher than the previous bid. For instance, if the bidding opens at $5000, subsequent bids of $5500, $6000, $6500, etc. would follow. The figure is generally rounded up or down at the auctioneer's discretion. IMO, the 200/500/800 incrementing scheme basically refers to the pattern within a 1000 range. After 800, the auctioneer rounds up to the next multiple of 1000. In this example within the range of $3000 to $5000, the first cycle pattern is 3200, 3500, 3800, 4000. Rinse and repeat. The next cycle pattern is 4200, 4500, 4800, 5000. The similar process occurs in the 30,000 to 50,000 range, i.e., 32000, 35000, 38000, 40000, 42000, 45000, 48000, 50000. Following is a different incrementing scheme used by Doyle New York. It avoids the 200/500/800 bit, but it also has to deal with not-so-convenient increments of 250, 2500, 25000, etc.. http://www.doylenewyork.com/buying-selling/increments.asp BIDDING INCREMENTS $ 0 - 100 : $10 $ 100 - 500 : $25 $ 500 - 1,000 : $50 $ 1,000 - 2,000 : $100 $ 2,000 - 5,000 : $250 $ 5,000 - 10,000 : $500 $ 10,000 - 20,000 : $1,000 $ 20,000 - 50,000 : $2,500 $ 50,000 - 100,000 : $5,000 $ 100,000 + : $10,000 The auctioneer may vary the increments at his or her discretion Yet both schemes hit the $4000, $40000, $400,000, $4,000,000 ... marks. As I said before, these are milestone numbers, for lack of a better term, that attract the attention of the auction participants.
[修改时间: 2013-09-26 15:18 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 00:34
Chinese to English
+ ...
| from a common sense perspective | Sep 26, 2013 |
Yan Yuliang wrote:
Wherestip,
Only that we cannot convince each other, does not mean I am not willing to listen.
You point out here that IMO, the 200/500/800 incrementing scheme basically refers to the pattern within a 1000 range.
However, this is "IMO", which means this is your interpretation of Sotheby's rules. The reason I disagree is we are talking about 3,000-5,000, so rounding up in the middle of this range looks wired. You either round up at the beginning, or at the end. I've never seen round-up in the middle.
Nobody is trying to convince you. Everyone is only here to help.
Forget the language aspect of this whole bloody business. Imagine you are at a prestigious auction. The bidding is at $30,000,000.
Which is more likely? The auctioneer goes $32,000, 000 ... $35,000,000 ... $38,000,000 ... $41,000,000 ... , and just drones on? Or does he go $32, 000, 000 ... $35,000,000 ... $38,000,000 ... "$40,000,000 !!!"?
At that point, it is entirely up to the auctioneer; whether the increment is $2,000,000 or $3,000,000 is insignificant. The auctioneer normally would round up the bid to $40,000,000. (That is the basic concept of "ROUND UP" in this circumstance). It's the drama. It's the excitement. That's what prestigious modern-day auctions in the most sense are.
[Edited at 2013-09-26 21:43 GMT]
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 00:34
Chinese to English
+ ...
| Of course the following is not what they intended | Sep 26, 2013 |
wherestip wrote: Yan Yuliang wrote:
Take a look at the increment patterns, and tell me, as a reader/bidder, which is more acceptable to you?
3,200, 3,500, 3,800, 4,100, 4,400, 4,700, 5,000
Don't you think if that's what the progression is, there's a simple way to express it in English too?
For instance, here's one for you:
HK$1,000 to HK$2,000 by HK$100s
HK$2,000 to HK$3,200 by HK$200s
HK$3,200 to HK$5,000 by HK$300s
HK$5,000 to HK$10,000 by HK$500s
[Edited at 2013-09-26 18:23 GMT]
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 00:34
Chinese to English
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| wherestip
United States
Local time: 00:34
Chinese to English
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| All of a sudden | Sep 27, 2013 |
... I'm talking to myself?
For those who don't have access to YouTube, here's a transcript of the auction ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q73-EaQydWU
…#12, is the Saint-Rémy, Van Gogh. Thank you, Carlos. Here it is, showing on my left on the easel. Lot #12, where should we start this?
3 million pounds … 3 million 2 hundred thousand … And 5 … 3 million 8 … 4 million pounds.
Who likes to come in? I'm selling at 4. And 2 with Si-an … 4 - 5 … 4 - 8 … 5 million … 5 - 2 … 5 - 5 … 5 - 8 … 6 million pounds.
6 million 2 … And you're out. The lady's bid here at 6 million 2 hundred thousand.
6 million 5 … Thank you … Sir? … 6 - 8 … 7 million pounds.
At 7 million pounds, for the Van Gogh Saint's. Selling …
7 million 2 hundred thousand, new place … Give me one more … You sure? I have it at ... ahead of you here, I'm afraid. Hesitation … 7 million 5, Ken Ye, 7 million 8 hundred thousand.
Either of you … 7 - 8, is what I have from Ken … 8 million pounds!
Will you give me 8 million 5 hundred thousand? … I'll take it, 8 million 2 hundred thousand.
Ken, it's yours at the moment. Anybody else like to come in?
At 8 million 2 ... You heard it ... 8 million 5, far right.
(chuckle ...) Ken, it's here, with Sandra, at 8 million 5 hundred thousand pounds at the moment.
Madam? … Thank you for the bidding earlier … at 8 - 5 then.
Here it is, Si-an? Now's your chance. 8 million 5 hundred thousand, I have …
(laughter … ) For those of you who didn't hear that, it was 8 - 6, 8 -7. I think that's how it went. Ken, did you give me 8 - 7? Yeah, so, Si-an, I took your bid at 8 - 6, but Ken trumped you at 8 - 7.
With Ken Ye, at 8 million 7 hundred thousand pounds.
8 million 8 hundred thousand. Either of you ... 8 million 8 hundred thousand then?
8 million 9 hundred thousand. Sandra, will you give me 9 million?
9 million pounds, for the Saint-Rémy, Van Gogh. At 9 million … 9 and a half, either of you?
At 9 million pounds. Are you all done … in the saleroom? Last chance … I'm going to sell it … (bangs gavel) Sold, at 9 million pounds. 8 - 5 - 7. Thank you.
Lot #13 ...
[Edited at 2013-09-28 10:09 GMT]
| | | | QHE
United States
Local time: 01:34
English to Chinese
+ ...
Sotheby's Auction, London: An Amusing Anecdote The bidding was proceeding furiously and strong when the Head Auctioneer suddenly announced, 'A gentleman in this room has lost a wallet containing ten thousand pounds. If returned, he will pay a reward of two thousand pounds. There was a moment's silence in the auction house and from the back of the room came a shout, 'Two thousand five hundred.' Parrot One day a man went to an auction. While there, he bid on a parrot. He really wanted this bird, so he got caught up in the bidding. He kept on bidding, but kept getting outbid, so he bid higher and higher and higher. Finally, after he bid way more than he intended, he won the bid - the parrot was his at last! As he was paying for the parrot, he said to the Auctioneer, "I sure hope this parrot can talk. I would hate to have paid this much for it, only to find out that he can't talk!" "Don't worry." said the Auctioneer, "He can talk. Who do you think kept bidding against you?" Two lawyers Two lawyers arrive at the pub and ordered a couple of drinks. They then take sandwiches from their briefcases and began to eat. Seeing this, the angry publican approaches them and says, 'Excuse me, but you cannot eat your own sandwiches in here!' The two look at each other, shrug and exchange sandwiches. Sherlock Holmes - Elementary Dear Watson Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson go on a camping trip, set up their tent, and fall asleep. Some hours later, Holmes wakes his faithful friend. 'Watson, look up at the sky and tell me what you see.' Watson replies, 'I see millions of stars.' 'What does that tell you?' Watson ponders for a minute.' Astronomically speaking, it tells me that there are millions of galaxies and potentially billions of planets. Astrologically, it tells me that Saturn is in Leo. Time wise, it appears to be approximately a quarter past three. Theologically, it's evident the Lord is all-powerful and we are small and insignificant. Meteorologically, it seems we will have a beautiful day tomorrow. What does it tell you? Holmes is silent for a moment, then speaks. 'Watson, you idiot, someone has stolen our tent.' The American and the Welsh farmers An American farmer was on holiday in Wales. He could not resist exploring the hill farms north of Aberystwyth. At lunch time he dropped into a pub and fell into easy conversation with a Welsh farmer. 'How big is your spread?' , asked the American. 'Well look you, it's about 20 acres he said’. Only 20 acres the American responded, back in Texas I can get up at sunrise, saddle my horse and ride all day, when I return at supper time, I'll be lucky to cover half my farm'. 'Dew dew', said the Welshman, 'I once had horse like that, but sent him to the knackers yard.' Real but Ridiculous Headlines from America's Newspapers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwaVsLKPZ5w http://ninetythrees.com/newspapers/39-strange-but-true-newspaper-headlines/ 
殖民地脱离"大中国":
| | | | Yan Yuliang
Local time: 13:34
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | Very enlightening explanation, thank you, wherestip! | Sep 27, 2013 |
Thank you wherestip,
Sorry I cannot visit youtube because of the GFW, but the text you provide is very enlightening, and it helps me to to learn more about the round-up thing in auction practice.
However I noticed that in the example you give, the 2, 5, 8, 0 increment pattern is used repeatedly, whether it is 3 million, 4 million, or 6 million, 7 million. This is different from the rule I translated.
I have also written to the Christie's customer representative ab... See more Thank you wherestip,
Sorry I cannot visit youtube because of the GFW, but the text you provide is very enlightening, and it helps me to to learn more about the round-up thing in auction practice.
However I noticed that in the example you give, the 2, 5, 8, 0 increment pattern is used repeatedly, whether it is 3 million, 4 million, or 6 million, 7 million. This is different from the rule I translated.
I have also written to the Christie's customer representative about this. I'll wait to see whether I can get some explanation.
Forgive me for being so stubborn, because I've got this math instinct that keeps telling me that there might be something behind this. The terms and conditions I did was for Andy Warhol auction, and for online-auction only.
So again I'll have to speak up, even if this is the rule in the auction industry, the source text is still confusing to me. If I were a Chinese and want bid in the auction, I guess I might have some problem with it.
Thank you all guys, for contributing to this thread. Before I get a reply from Christie's, I'll just cannot give in.
[修改时间: 2013-09-27 15:18 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 00:34
Chinese to English
+ ...
Yan Yuliang wrote:
Thank you wherestip,
Sorry I cannot visit youtube because of the GFW, but the text you provide is very enlightening, and it helps me to to learn more about the round-up thing in auction practice.
However I noticed that in the example you give, the 2, 5, 8, 0 increment pattern is used repeatedly, whether it is 3 million, 4 million, or 6 million, 7 million. This is different from the rule I translated.
I have also written to the Christie's customer representative about this. I'll wait to see whether I can get some explanation.
Forgive me for being so stubborn, because I've got this math instinct that keeps telling me that there might be something behind this. The terms and conditions I did was for Andy Warhol auction, and for online-auction only.
So again I'll have to speak up, even if this is the rule in the auction industry, the source text is still confusing to me. If I were a Chinese and want bid in the auction, I guess I might have some problem with it.
Thank you all guys, for contributing to this thread. Before I get a reply from Christie's, I'll just cannot give in.
Yuliang,
I was happy to be of help. I know it could be frustrating for both sides of an argument, but I'm glad you kept your cool.
Keep up the good work.
| | | | Yan Yuliang
Local time: 13:34
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | You are right about the increments. | Oct 12, 2013 |
Bingo, everyone, I received reply from Christie's customer representative:
Dear Sir or Madam,
The bid increments would be 1,000, 1,100, 1,200, 1,300, 1,400, 1,500, 1,600, 1,700, 1,800 1,900, 2,000, 2,200, 2,400, 2,600, 2,800, 3,000 3,200, 3,500, 3,800, 4,000, 4,200, 4,500, 4,800, 5,000. And so on according to 5,000-10,000 (by 500); 10,000-20,000 (by 1,000); 20,000-30,000 (by 2,000) 30,000-50,000 (by 2,000/5,000/8,000); 50,000 to 100,000 (by 5,000); 100,000 to 200,000 (... See more Bingo, everyone, I received reply from Christie's customer representative:
Dear Sir or Madam,
The bid increments would be 1,000, 1,100, 1,200, 1,300, 1,400, 1,500, 1,600, 1,700, 1,800 1,900, 2,000, 2,200, 2,400, 2,600, 2,800, 3,000 3,200, 3,500, 3,800, 4,000, 4,200, 4,500, 4,800, 5,000. And so on according to 5,000-10,000 (by 500); 10,000-20,000 (by 1,000); 20,000-30,000 (by 2,000) 30,000-50,000 (by 2,000/5,000/8,000); 50,000 to 100,000 (by 5,000); 100,000 to 200,000 (by 10,000); 200,000 to 300,000 (by 20,000); 300,000 to 500,000 (by 20,000/50,000/80,000); 500,000 to 1,000,000 (by 50,000).
Please contact us again if we can be of further assistance. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Yan Yuliang
Local time: 13:34
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | Back to the question I raised | Oct 12, 2013 |
I guess if anyone has read Developing Quality Technical Information might instateneously know what I am talking about. The book is about technical writing, however I guess its principles apply to other types of writing, too.
http://www.amazon.com/Developing-Quality-Technical-Information-Handbook/dp/0131477498
For those who have not read this book, the following link might explain what I was talking about:
http://www.umuc.edu/writingcenter/onlineguide/chapter2-04.cfm
To develop an audience profile, you need specific information about your audience, information about its understanding of and attitude toward your subject. Your teacher may guide you in learning what questions to ask to get the necessary information to profile your audience, or you may develop this list yourself. The following list, although not exhaustive, can help you do that. Be aware that your teacher or your particular writing assignment may require more information about your audience.
Who is my primary audience?
What purpose will this writing serve for my readers? How will they use it?
Is my audience multicultural?
What is my audience’s attitude toward and probable reaction to this writing?
Will readers expect certain patterns of thought in my writing? Will they need statistical data to be convinced?
[修改时间: 2013-10-12 14:18 GMT]
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