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a fêté ses 75 ans !
coquette
Sep 2, 2021 09:42
2 yrs ago
54 viewers *
French term

mère

Non-PRO French to English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
In a script I am translating, a lawyer says this to a colleague. She is explaining that an audience with Judge Tardieu did not go well. Her friend encourages her to not let it get to her, and she answers "You're right. **Je vais lui faire bouffer son code civil à la mère Tardieu!**"

I understand what she is trying to say, I just can't seem to think of a good translation of mère Tardieu. I considered "Old Tardieu", but it doesn't convince me...

Any suggestions welcome!
Proposed translations (English)
2 +1 old hag/witch
3 I just want to shove the damned civil code down Her Honour's throat
3 I'll shove that Civil Code down old Mrs Tardieu's gullet.
3 Madam
3 -1 I'll make her swallow the Civil code, this woman Tardieu

Discussion

Daryo Sep 3, 2021:
Conference interpreters are no angels either ... passing "live" all sort of comments on annoying speakers, and sometime forgetting to first press the MUTE button - making gaffes that would feed "trade gossip" for years to come.
AllegroTrans Sep 3, 2021:
Well... Having been a Court advocate myself, I can vouch for the fact that lawyers use some extremely strong terms for judges who give them a rough time (in whispered tones, naturally)
Victoria Britten Sep 3, 2021:
where to stuff/shove A vote for this, though I think old hag/witch/whatever may be a bit too strong alongside such a graphic translation of "faire bouffer"
Daryo Sep 3, 2021:
Interesting question especially given that when you translate it must happen quite often that a name full of connotations for the target audience of the source text means nothing for the target audience of the translated text.

If Tardieu is the real name of this judge, It should be kept, unless from the context it's crystal clear who exactly must be "that woman".

If "la mère Tardieu" is a reference or an allusion to some kind of literary character, can't find which one it could be.

There is a whole family "Tardieu" in the movie "Et Dieu... créa la femme" where the character of "la mère Tardieu" doesn't look nowhere near like some "old witch/hag"
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049189/?ref_=tt_sims_tt_i_2
but that could be just a red herring.

Can't see that "Tardieu" would have any kind of notoriety like te names Dreyfus or Esterhazy. Can't see that calling this character "Tardieu" was supposed to associate with some specific character traits - IF that that happens to be the case, her name might need to be changed in the English version.
SafeTex Sep 3, 2021:
@ Daryo Hello

Whoa. I've been so busy today so I forgot that most people took this to be a a reference to a character in a book, like if you call someone Scrooge.

Are you saying that the name of the judge really is Tardieu or even saying that the name does indeed refer to the character in the book but we should keep this virtually unknown French reference in the English translation???
Daryo Sep 2, 2021:
At the risk of repeating myself The insult is the inappropriate familiarity of "la mère Tardieu", NOT in comparing this woman judge to some kind of witch.

Even with insults you can not overdo it just because you personally like the sound of a far stronger variant, and add what is not in the text: "that woman Tardieu" is just about right, even "that bitch" is a step too far.

Ever heard of the COBUILD database?

In my personal "COBUILD database" there is no witch in "la mère une telle", whatever this context makes you presume.
SafeTex Sep 2, 2021:
@ Daryo and all You say no connotations whatsoever of witch/hag but the phrase is preceded by "Je vais lui faire bouffer son code civil"
The asker I suppose understands that I was only translating the idea of "mère" here (the question) used in a derogative manner and of course she must add "Tardieu". Others too are agreeing with, giving alternatives (bat) or improving my suggestion (polyglot45) along the same lines while you of course just wade in as always with a disagree.
Think of the expression "nique ta mère". We have something similar here.
Daryo Sep 2, 2021:
Referring to a woman as "la mère + her name" is more a sign of overt familiarity - there are no connotations whatsoever that she is seen as some kind of witch / old hag. Same as in English calling a man a "dude" or a "geezer" doesn't imply that this guy must be some kind of horror show character.

Using "la mère Tardieu" is for sure a blatant sign of disrespect as a lawyer is not supposed to talk of a judge as if she's their drinking buddy. But that doesn't imply that she's some kind of "witch".

The insult is the inappropriate familiarity of "la mère Tardieu", NOT in comparing that this woman judge to some kind of witch.
SafeTex Sep 2, 2021:
@ Polyglot45 and all Yes, that is a very good improvement as it superbly reflects the verb "bouffer". Nice😁
polyglot45 Sep 2, 2021:
show that old cow/bag/hag/bitch where to stuff her "code civil"
Victoria Britten Sep 2, 2021:
If it's important to use her name, maybe "that Tardieu woman/cow/bitch [as appropriate]" or "Ma Tardieu" (though if you're not convinced by "old Tardieu" - which I think could definitely work in the general context you outline - the latter probably won't float your boat either)
Rebecca Breekveldt (asker) Sep 2, 2021:
Thank you all for your help! I think you are right, I just need to leave the name out.
Since it is for subtitles, I will also see what works well within the character limit.
Emmanuella Sep 2, 2021:
L'âge n'a aucune importance. Le contexte est clair. C!est une façon de parler. Je partage le commentaire de Philgoddard.
chris collister Sep 2, 2021:
Although Angela is routinely referred to as "mutti", I doubt whether "mummy Tardieu" would cut it. Erring on the side of caution, I'd give her no title at all, e.g. " stuff Tardieu and her civil code" or similar.
philgoddard Sep 2, 2021:
You don't have to include either 'mère' or 'Tardieu' in your translation. You could say something like 'that woman' or (if this is appropriate) 'that bitch', or you could be sarcastic and say 'her ladyship'.

I assume the judge has given a decision that she doesn't like, citing the civil code. So maybe 'I'd like to stuff the civil code down that woman's throat' or 'make her eat the civil code one page at a time'.

Tony's comment implies that we need more context, and I agree.
Tony M Sep 2, 2021:
@ Asker The only references I have found seem to refer to a classic FR film, where she appears to be a grandma — but I can't get through to any more information about her character.
In any case, I doubt it would mean much to the EN reader, I imagine the speaker is referring to the 'old' woman who has brought the action etc. (i.e. quoting the Code Civil), so you could simply say something like "I'll tell the old bat what she can do with her Code Civil" etc. Presumably your wider context tells you a bit more about who the person is, so you can tailor the expression to suit.

Proposed translations

+1
4 hrs
Selected

old hag/witch

Based on what others have said in the conversation, and my native English and what we are likely to say. "Bitch" too of course but that's perhaps too strong
Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard : This may work, depending on the context.
14 mins
Thanks
agree AllegroTrans : "old bat" (per Tony) is also good and maybe a tad better i.e. milder
50 mins
Thanks. Old "bat" too sounds fine to me. There is quite a choice actually in English for this eh?
disagree Daryo : there are no connotations of that kind whatsoever in calling a women "la mère + her name" // I've heard it used many times, never in that way.// BTW, "la mère xyz" could very well be a middle age woman, not especially "old" - **another assumption**
7 hrs
You have to look at the entire context. You could say the old hag/witch Tardieu but I was just translating "mère" in the way that it is used (derogatorily). The agrees and discussion should have alerted you
agree ph-b (X) : Also agree that "bitch" would be too strong for mère.
20 hrs
Thanks ph-b
disagree Mpoma : Too strong. "Mère" in fact has some connotations verging on affection, or at least love-hate feelings.
21 hrs
Hi Mpoma. Noted, Tony did suggest "bat" but based on your remark, I think "scroundrel" might work eh?
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
-1
12 hrs
French term (edited): Je vais lui faire bouffer son code civil à la mère Tardieu

I'll make her swallow the Civil code, this woman Tardieu

as a parallel with "I'll make her swallow her words"

OR

I'll ram the Civil Code down her throat, (I'll do that) to this woman Tardieu
Peer comment(s):
disagree SafeTex : Pretty much misses the derogatory undertones
17 mins
You are in fact just guessing from the context, assuming what could make sense according to your misreading of the text. // As opposed to having samples aplenty of real life use of the term// Even with insults, you've got to get it right.
neutral Victoria Britten : I think the tone of this could work, but it would be "I'll make THAT Tardieu woman swallow..."
11 hrs
if rearranged that way it sounds better to you, I can only agree,
neutral AllegroTrans : "this woman Tardieu" would need to be "that woman Tardieu" to produce any effect of emphasis and your own words "doesn't look nowhere near like" need some linguistic attention
15 hrs
OK
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15 hrs

I just want to shove the damned civil code down Her Honour's throat

People have provided great ideas in the comments area. This is just another option.
best wishes
Peer comment(s):
neutral AllegroTrans : "Her Honour" would be the wrong term if she is say, merely a District Judge//yes, but neither option carries the disdain that is meant to be expressed here
14 hrs
"Her Honour" is a widely recognised formula to address the judiciary in English-speaking jurisdictions, it is used in the USA, in Canada and in Australia and non-lawyers recognise it. Another option is replacing "her Honour" with "Judge Tardieu"
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1 day 2 hrs

I'll shove that Civil Code down old Mrs Tardieu's gullet.

It's got to be snappy and it mustn't be too strong: mère carries a hint of affection, or the suggestion of the kind of love-hate feelings sometimes felt for mothers (although I am aware that mère definitely is, at the same time, a generic and possibly disrespectful expression or form of address for any older woman).
Peer comment(s):
neutral ph-b (X) : Definitely no hint of affection/love-hate relationship here, but yes to disrespectful expression/form of address. "old Mrs Tardieu" too weak for la mère Tardieu./Would you use bouffer if there was a hint of affection?
17 mins
Mm, think you're wrong there, on both counts. "Mère" as a form of address or reference (concerning someone not your mother) isn't necessarily disrespectful. This *phrase* is insulting, but not violent: the image is more powerful than the sentiment.
neutral AllegroTrans : "old Mrs Tardieu" doesn't quite ring as strong enough
5 hrs
Fair enough, but I definitely persist: think of Père Goriot: this just means "Old Goriot". It's just the context that gives it a sharper edge, and my suggestion of "gullet" conveys something like that.
neutral Angelo Berbotto : We are not told the age of Judge Tardieu, it is her court manner and the way she dealt with the case... Also, lawyers don't address judges as "Mrs surname", when talking to colleagues after a hearing you just refer to judge so and so in England
15 hrs
Oh dear. Mère unquestionably references the age of Mrs T, possibly exaggerating it, as a slight. And you've completely misunderstood the register here: mère is being used as a deliberate sign of the speaker's lack of respect.
neutral Daryo : "mère" = old age? Leaving aside teenage pregnancies, there is still an awful lot of youngish mothers, or middle age ones you wouldn't dare call "old". Not convinced. OTOH it is a sign of misplaced familiarity in a professional context, agree on that.
2 days 23 hrs
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3 days 6 hrs

Madam

Depending on the tone of voice used, "Madam" in English can carry an air of disdain and would work well here

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Note added at 3 days 6 hrs (2021-09-05 16:30:03 GMT)
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Merriam-Webster, sense 3

So when could it be insulting?

If used to call a woman a madam such that she could reasonably believe you were saying she runs a house of prostitution or comparing her to someone who does.

If used in a belittling way to indicate someone is acting as though they were superior to others. I recall hearing a British woman say to her young daughter, "You're behaving like a right little madam!" to mean that her daughter was acting stuck up (Merriam-Webster).

But if you just said "May I help you, madam?" or "After you, madam" or similar, that wouldn't be insulting.

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Note added at 3 days 6 hrs (2021-09-05 16:34:10 GMT)
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"THAT Madam Tardieu" would work well
Peer comment(s):
neutral Daryo : personally I would avoid "Madam", there is a serious risk of misinterpretation given what a "Madam" is in another trade.
18 hrs
I think the context rules out that connotation: 'Madame'is often used disdainfully in GB without any implication of brothel-keeping
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