Kitty Brussaard Feb 29, 2016:

@Barend Er leiden in dit geval meerdere wegen naar Rome. De persoonlijke stijl van de vertaler speelt daarbij zeker ook een rol. Daarom vind ik het niet zo zinvol om een 'sluitend' antwoord in te brengen, voor zover dat überhaupt al mogelijk is. Om tot een goede vertaling/verwoording te komen, is inzicht in de bredere context echter wel handig en daar heb ik me deze keer dan ook op gericht.

Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 29, 2016:

We gaan de goeie kant op.

Nu nog op de juiste plek uit de strakke pols.

We werken niet met vooruitbetaling.

:-)

Kitty Brussaard Feb 29, 2016:

Uit de losse pols We zien dat onze klanten op het gebied van customer analytics (of: klantenanalyse) een ontwikkeling doormaken waarbij het accent verschuift van terugblikken op klantgedrag naar inzicht ontwikkelen/krijgen in klantgedrag en uiteindelijk zelfs naar anticiperen op / voorspellen van (toekomstig) klantgedrag.

Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 29, 2016:

Jammer, weer mislukt. :-)

Kitty Brussaard Feb 29, 2016:

@Barend Mijn inbreng beperkt zich deze keer tot het 'duiden' van de context waarbinnen e.e.a. moet worden gezien.

Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 29, 2016:

Er zijn al twee vertaalvoorstellen gedaan, met welk voorstel ben je het eens?

Kitty Brussaard Feb 29, 2016:

In het artikel lijkt men deze 'trits' te hebben ontleend aan Gartner...

Hindsight > What happened? (descriptive analytics)
Insight > Why did it happen? (diagnostic analytics)
Foresight > What will happen? (predictive analytics) > How can we make it happen? (prescriptive analytics)

Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 29, 2016:

Dikke kans dat "hindsight to insight ultimately to foresight" niet voor eerst in Jorims tekst is verschenen.

Waarschijnlijker is dat wij het voor het eerst hier hoorden. :-)

Kitty Brussaard Feb 29, 2016:

Hindsight-insight-foresight Zie in dit verband bijvoorbeeld het volgende artikel: http://www.i3.nl/brochure/predictive-analytics.

Kitty Brussaard Feb 28, 2016:

My final tuppence This is essentially all about analytics (and, more specifically, customer analytics) and gaining so-called data-driven insight. I read the first few sentences as follows.

This company's clients - being telcom companies which provide their customers with telecommunications network services/solutions - have access to a wealth of fresh yet raw data as a result of their customers being almost permanently connected to the network(s) they make available to them. Analytics is needed to transform this fresh raw data into meaningful/actionable information and insights. In this specific context, these insights will no doubt be related to customer behaviour (i.e. customers' behaviour as telcom network users) and customer needs. Apparently, the company has seen their clients 'mature' in the sense of adopting ever more advanced approaches to analytics / customer analytics (and corresponding software/tools): retrospective analytics > real-time analytics > predictive analytics.

Oftewel: terugblikken op klantgedrag in het verleden (door analyse achteraf) > klantgedrag in het heden volgen (door real-time analyse) > anticiperen op klantgedrag in de toekomst (door voorspellende analyse).

Jorim De Clercq (asker) Feb 27, 2016:

Yes Thanks everybody! There are indeed three parties. However, the document never mentions that telcom companies are the clients of the 'advisory company'. Therefore I will change 'our clients' (see Kitty's explanation) through 'telcom companies'.

Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 27, 2016:

@Jorim You have three parties:

- 'advisory company'
- telcom company/ies ('clients')
- customers ('clients') of telcom company/ies

Kitty Brussaard Feb 27, 2016:

Alternatively: As our clients' customers are almost permanently connected to the network (that our clients provide them with??)...

In fact, having taken another look at the additional context information provided by Jorim, I think this is actually how the first part should be read.

Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 27, 2016:

Now children will understand. :-)

Kitty Brussaard Feb 27, 2016:

Here's how I would spell it out As our clients' customers are almost permanently connected to the network (that we as a telco provide??), this access to fresh data (that our clients enjoy as a result) gives our clients the potential to personalize customer relationships at a very granular level.
And will provide our clients with extremely valuable business information through what one might call the customer dna.
We observe our clients maturing in the way they approach customer analytics projects, accomplishing a journey from hindsight to insight ultimately to foresight.

I'll leave it to other colleagues to suggest a translation for the hindsight-insight-foresight part, if they haven't already done so :-).

Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 27, 2016:

I think that Kitty, Michael and myself are on one line as far as interpretation is concerned meanwhile.

I would say if anyone around here feels like entering a translation suggestion, please go ahead.

Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 27, 2016:

Okay All you need to do:

We (advisory company) zien dat het bedrijf (onze klant) groeit op het punt van analyseprojecten betreffende klanten en een proces doorlopen van 'wijsheid achteraf naar wijsheid in het hier en nu, naar wijsheid vooraf'.

But of course this advisory company has more than one client...

Jorim De Clercq (asker) Feb 27, 2016:

Two parties The text is about two parties only: a company that offers telecommunication services and the client. It provides advice for telcom companies about how they can get a higher revenue...

Kitty Brussaard Feb 27, 2016:

So ... "We [Company X, selling the customer insight solution] observe clients [Company X's clients] maturing in customer analytics project [Company X's clients get better at gaining insight about their own customers], accomplishing a journey from hindsight to insight ultimately to foresight."

Dat is inderdaad de meest logische/zuivere verwoording van e.e.a.

Barends voorstel om 'clients' te vertalen als 'bedrijven' is op zich ook geen gek idee. Zo kun je het noodzakelijke onderscheid maken tussen de klanten van het bedrijf zelf ('our clients') en de klanten van hun klanten ('our clients' customers').

Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 27, 2016:

Eplanatory:

"we" is a third party

the clients of 'we' = companies

We zien dat bedrijven (onze klanten) groeien op het punt van analyseprojecten betreffende klanten en een proces doorlopen van 'wijsheid achteraf naar wijsheid in het hier en nu, naar wijsheid vooraf'.

Zonder mijn eigen vertaalvoorstel te willen verkopen. :-)

Michael Beijer Feb 27, 2016:

So ... "We [Company X, selling the customer insight solution] observe clients [Company X's clients] maturing in customer analytics project [Company X's clients get better at gaining insight about their own customers], accomplishing a journey from hindsight to insight ultimately to foresight."

"maturing in customer analytics project" blijft raar. Probably supposed to be "maturing in customer analytics projects"

Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 27, 2016:

clients = companies ? I think we all agree that:

...accomplishing a journey from hindsight to insight ultimately to foresight...

pertains to the company/companies.

Then put this in front of it:

We observe clients (= companies) maturing in customer analytics project, accomplishing a journey from hindsight to insight ultimately to foresight.

Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 27, 2016:

As their customers are almost permanently connected to the network ...this access to fresh data gives the potential to personalize customer relationships at a very granular level.

The 'company's access', it seems to me.

And will provide extremely valuable business information...

Which is followed by:

We observe clients maturing in customer analytics project, accomplishing a journey from hindsight to insight ultimately to foresight.

Which is followed by:

A true data-driven customer approach offers a lot of advantages, and here are some of the most striking and useful ones in your industry:

Kitty Brussaard Feb 27, 2016:

@Michael Is it that a Company X is selling customer insight/analysis solutions/software to its "clients", and these clients then use the solutions/software to analyse/gain insight into their own customers?

That indeed seems to be the most likely interpretation to me too.

Michael Beijer Feb 27, 2016:

incidentally, it says: "We observe clients maturing in customer analytics project"
+
"As their customers ..."

It is therefore not really clear to me how many customers/clients there are. Jorim, care to shed some light on this?

Is it that a Company X is selling customer insight/analysis solutions/software to its "clients" [customer/client #1], and these clients are then using the solutions/software to analyse/gain insight into their own customers [customer/client #2]?

Kitty Brussaard Feb 27, 2016:

Throwing in my tuppence... Het bedrijf dat hier aan het woord is (de 'we'), ziet klaarblijkelijk in praktijk dat hun klanten/opdrachtgevers (de 'clients') een ontwikkeling doormaken ('mature') gedurende het customer analytics-project (of wellicht: wat betreft customer analytics in het algemeen). Die ontwikkeling houdt in dat hun inzicht in hun klanten ('their customers') evolueert van inzicht (op basis van analyse) achteraf via real-time (analyse en) inzicht naar 'voorspellend' inzicht.

Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 27, 2016:

Don't agree. You are now making a mess of it yourself.

There is no doubt whatsoever...

...dat gaat om een proces dat wordt doorlopen door het bedrijf.

This makes perfect sense in the general context:

"We (company) observe clients, maturing in customer analytics, accomplishing a journey from hindsight to insight and ultimately to foresight."

Michael Beijer Feb 27, 2016:

or ... "We [are able to] observe clients maturing in [a/our special] customer analytics project, [as they accomplish] a journey from hindsight to insight [, and] ultimately to foresight."

The src is a real mess.

Oops, the above would indicate the insight is indeed of the customers, rather than about the customers. Anyway, the src is Jorim's problem ;) Sorry, was/am only half paying attention; it's bath/bed time for Juniper!

Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 27, 2016:

Klantinzicht You are right, I see, it might mean 'inzicht in klanten'.

I tend to read it as 'inzicht van klanten'.

Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 27, 2016:

Agree You might just as well leave out 'project' and add a comma behind clients and add 'and' as you suggested.

"We observe clients, maturing in customer analytics, accomplishing a journey from hindsight to insight and ultimately to foresight."

Michael Beijer Feb 27, 2016:

@Barend: Volgens mij betekent "klantinzicht(en)" juist "insight in customers/consumers", en niet "insight of ...".

Zie bijv. http://www.indora.nl/klantinzicht-consumer-insight-inzicht-i...

Michael Beijer Feb 27, 2016:

@Barend: Having just looked at the English a little more closely, I noticed that it is not very well written.

"We observe clients maturing in customer analytics project, accomplishing a journey from hindsight to insight [, and] ultimately to foresight."

Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 27, 2016:

Dan wel omgekeerd evoluerend inzicht in klanten

Dit is meer een verklaring dan een vertaling die meegaat in het ritme van de brontekst

Michael Beijer Feb 27, 2016:

misschien is er ook iets leuks te verzinnen met… "evoluerende klantinzicht(en)" ...

Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 27, 2016:

Many options here :-) een proces van wijsheid achteraf naar wijsheid in het hier en nu, naar wijsheid vooraf

Elma de Jong Feb 27, 2016:

Nog een poging: [...], waardoor ze van achter de feiten aanlopen tot inzicht komen en er uiteindelijk in slagen vooruit te zien.

Machiel van Veen (X) Feb 27, 2016:

Nou, Michael je zit goed in de buurt, maar de vertaling van Freek vind ik toch net even beter, vooral de onderste zin "een reis van achter de feiten ...."

freekfluweel Feb 27, 2016:

een reis van achteruitlopen naar meelopen naar uiteindelijk vooruitlopen

een reis van achter de feiten aanlopen naar inzichtelijk/kunnen meelopen naar uiteindelijk vet/de toekomst ver vooruitlopen

Michael Beijer Feb 27, 2016:

wow, looking forward to people's attempts a quick try:

a journey from hindsight to insight ultimately to foresight =
een reis van achteraf inzicht naar inzicht, en uiteindelijk tot vooruitziendheid
van achteraf inzicht naar inzicht, en uiteindelijk naar vooruitziendheid