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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

alternateur

English translation:

alternator

Added to glossary by EirTranslations
Jun 18, 2012 19:58
11 yrs ago
3 viewers *
French term

alternateur

French to English Tech/Engineering Nuclear Eng/Sci
I have translated groupe electrogene for "generator" and moteur diesel for diesel engine, but the problem arises with the alternateur as this is often translated also as a generator. Can anyone help with this, for a nuclear power plant, help much appreciated thanks

Chaque fois que cela est possible, la construction est basée sur des ensembles fonctionnels sur châssis communs (skids):

un châssis par groupe électrogène comprenant le moteur diesel et l’alternateur,

un châssis pour la production d’air comprimé de lancement (commun pour les deux groupes électrogènes),
Proposed translations (English)
4 +4 alternator
4 +1 a.c. generator
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): Kim Metzger

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Discussion

chris collister Jun 19, 2012:
I'm all for accuracy, but let's not split hairs. Anybody reading either "generator" or "alternator" would know exactly what is meant with no loss of precision. Am I sitting in front of a "screen" or a "monitor"? Is my computer in a "box" or an "enclosure"? And so on....
Johannes Gleim Jun 19, 2012:
The correct citation sounds as follwows: "A diesel generator is the combination of a diesel engine with an electrical generator (often an alternator) to generate electrical energy. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_generator
instead of "a generator is a combination of an engine and electrical generator (called alternator) to generate electricity." as written in one answer. This is quite different and may mislead any peer who trust in literal citations.

The Wikipedia articles specifies a "diesel generator" instead of a "generator". It does not designate an electrical generator as "alternator", but summarizes all types of generators, including alternators. This makes the difference and this should be considered during evaluation of proposals.

Wikipedia articles are mostly reliable, but not always. I found one article, for instance, where the melting index for a fuse was wrongly described and posted an appropriate comment (different question).

The most reliable source for electrical and engineering terms are the public glossaries from IEC and ISO or from national organizations (e.g. BSI and AFNOR), which use this terminology. That's why I often use these sources.
Tony M Jun 19, 2012:
Absolutely agree, Chris! Generically, all these things are part of the set 'generators'; 'alternators' are a special subset of all generators, being those that generate specifically AC.

My feeling is simply that it is safest to reserve 'generator' for the complete 'generating set' and use 'alternator' wherever the specific term is applicable. Thus it is possible say that "a portbale generator comprises a motor + an alternator" without its sounding ridiculous.
chris collister Jun 19, 2012:
Without getting too aerated about what is, after all, quite a fine distinction, I would say that a rotating machine which produces a DC output is a "generator", whereas a machine producing an AC output is both an alternator and a generator. My old motorbike had a 6V generator (no rectifiers), but my more modern car has an alternator, though it could loosely be referred to as a generator as well.
Johannes Gleim Jun 18, 2012:
@ Michele "A generator is ... an engine + electrical generator". Is that logical?

generator [ˈdʒɛnəˌreɪtə]
n
1. (Physics / General Physics) Physics
a. any device for converting mechanical energy into electrical energy by electromagnetic induction, esp a large one as in a power station
b. a device for producing a voltage electrostatically
c. any device that converts one form of energy into another form an acoustic generator
2. (Chemistry) an apparatus for producing a gas
3. a person or thing that generates
(Definition by Collins)

See also:
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/generator
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Electric generator
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/generator
http://science.yourdictionary.com/generator
http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/Generator
etc.
Tony M Jun 18, 2012:
For info... Someone sent me a link about HV DC lines just the other day, and to my amazement, yes they DO use massive great rectifiers — at one time mercury arc ones!!! Can you imagine?!

It all depends whether the 'alternateur' is referring just the the electriucal bit, in which case I insist that 'alternator' is the preferred term; or, as is so often the case, to the entire generating set ('ligne d'arbre', in certain contexts), in which case I would agree that 'generator' is more correct; the trouble is, it's not always immediately obviosu from the context which is meant; in Beatriz's case, however, the distinction is made clear.
chris collister Jun 18, 2012:
You just can't win, but either way, there is no ambiguity in my mind: both "generate" electricity, though I wonder if the new generation of high voltage DC transmission systems produce DC directly (from a generator) or rectify the AC (from an alternator)? Those would have to be pretty serious rectifiers.
I have 7 entries in my EDF glossary under "alternateur" all giving "generator", though Framatome gives both!
Tony M Jun 18, 2012:
Oh dear, Chris! I've equally been told off in the opposite direction, by the biggest power generator in France. About time they got their ideas sorted out, innit?
chris collister Jun 18, 2012:
Ah, well, I have been told off on a couple of occasions, by serious clients, for using "alternator" for the big, hundreds of MW generators. Yes, I know they ARE alternators, but for some reason, these important clients insist on calling them "generators", so that's what I do!
Johannes Gleim Jun 18, 2012:
Generator is also used by professionnels (Cf. electropedia) and not obsolete or outdated.

Generating set or genset is correctly translated for "groupe électrogène".
Tony M Jun 18, 2012:
generator I think you are giving yourself a problem because of trying to use the layman's term 'generator'.

A 'groupe é.' is, in proper technical parlance, usually a 'generating set' or 'genset'; when small, the entire unit is sometimes called a generator, yes.

The actual device that produces the electrical output is called an 'alternator', as long as it produces AC (most of them do, these days). This should never be referred to as a 'generator' in any kind of formal technical document, since that term is primarily reserved for the notion of the whole 'groupe'.

Proposed translations

+4
15 mins
Selected

alternator

a generator is a combination of an engine and electrical generator (called alternator) to generate electricity.
Reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_generator

Peer comment(s):
agree Savvas SEIMANIDIS
5 mins
agree Tony M : But of course! Note that this is also the term adopted by two of France's biggest manufacturers of these things — and surely they ought to know?!
7 mins
agree Kim Metzger
1 hr
agree Jean-Claude Gouin
1 hr
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks"
+1
1 hr

a.c. generator

Deutsch Englisch Spanisch Französisch Dänisch
Asynchrongenerator
asynchronous generator
generador asíncrono
alternateur (ou génératrice*) asynchrone
asynkron generator
http://antriebstechnik.fh-stralsund.de/1024x768/Dokumentenfr...

en alternating current generator
a.c. generator
a generator for the production of alternating current and voltage
fr alternateur
génératrice qui produit des tensions et des courants alternatifs
http://www.electropedia.org/iev/iev.nsf/display?openform&iev...

1.1 - PRESENTATION
Le groupe turbo-alternateur MAKILA-TI est conçu pour fournir une puissance électrique de 1066 KWé en conditions ISO.
1.1 - PRESENTATION
The MAKILA-TI turbo-generator unit is designed to supply electrical power of 1,066 kW under ISO conditions.
http://cfaspower.com/TM1000.pdf

Cummins Generateur with Stamford or Leroy Somer Alternateur



Features:
1) Rated output: 5-800kw
2) Rated voltage: 400 / 230V, 380 / 220, 220 / 110, etc,
3) Rated frequency: 50 / 60Hz
4) Power factor: 0.8

Engine:
1) Rated power: ISUZU, CUMMINS, PERKINS, DOOSAN, ETC
2) Cooling method: closed water cooling
3) Starting method: electric start
4) Rated speed: 1,500 / 1,800rpm
5) Noise level:Silent type( 75dB dB @ 7 meter away)

Alternateur:
1) Brand: Stamford or Leroy Somer or our KP series brushless
2) Rated output: 5-800KW
3) Rated voltage: 400 / 230V,380 / 220, 220 / 110, etc
4) Rated Frequency: 50 / 60Hz
5) Power factor: 0.8
6) Phase: 3-phase, 4-wire
7) Connection: Y or other type connection
8) Rated speed: 1,500rpm / 1,800rpm
9) Excitation: harmonic excitation or phase compound or brushless
11) Voltage regulation: AVR automatic
12) 1.0% voltage regulation (max.) in static conditions
13) Protection class: IP 22 or IP23
http://www.weiku.com/products/6484479/Cummins_Generateur_wit...

Containerized diesel generator set
670 - 1 110 kVA, 50 Hz | GTW-670 T5 - GTW-1030 T5 series GENELEC Caractéristiques
Puissance Nominale kVA : 670
Puissance Nominale kW : 536
Puissance Secours kVA : 738
Puissance Secours kW : 590
Fréquence Hz : 50
Régime de Fonctionnement R.P.M. : 1 500
Tension V : 3Ph~ 400
Type d'alternateur : Autoexcité sans balais
Fabricant du moteur : MITSUBISHI
Modele du Moteur : S6R2 PTA
Norme CE 97/68 STAGE II : Non Exigible
Cylindres, nombre et disposition : 6-L
Consommation de carburant L/h
à 75% de charge P.R.P. : 106
Caractéristiques
Puissance Nominale kVA : 670
Puissance Nominale kW : 536
Puissance Secours kVA : 738
Puissance Secours kW : 590
Fréquence Hz : 50
Régime de Fonctionnement R.P.M. : 1 500
Tension V : 3Ph~ 400
Type d'alternateur : Autoexcité sans balais
Fabricant du moteur : MITSUBISHI
Modele du Moteur : S6R2 PTA
Norme CE 97/68 STAGE II : Non Exigible
Cylindres, nombre et disposition : 6-L
Consommation de carburant L/h
à 75% de charge P.R.P. : 106
http://www.directindustry.com/prod/genelec/containerized-die...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2012-06-18 21:28:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Please distinguish "groupe eléctrogène" (diesel generating set) from "alternateur" (a.c. generator).

en runaway speed
the maximum speed attained by the engine/generator set after removal of the full load of the generator if the speed regulator does not function
fr vitesse d'emballement d'un groupe électrogène
vitesse maximale atteinte par le groupe, en cas de disparition de la pleine charge de la génératrice et de non-fonctionnement du régulateur de vitesse
http://www.electropedia.org/iev/iev.nsf/display?openform&iev...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2012-06-19 05:59:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Same results with BSI and AFNOR:

NF EN 45510-2-6 Octobre 2000
- Guide pour l'acquisition d'équipements destinés aux centrales de production d'électricité - Partie 2 : équipements électriques - Section 6 : alternateurs
http://www.boutique.afnor.org/norme/nf-en-45510-2-6/guide-po...

BS EN 45510-2-6:2000
Guide for the procurement of power station equipment. Electrical equipment. Generators
http://shop.bsigroup.com/en/ProductDetail/?pid=0000000000300...

No wonder, both national organizations adhere to IEC terminology.

Same with ISO for "groupe electrogène"

NF ISO 8528-5 Octobre 2005
- Groupes électrogènes à courant alternatif entraînés par moteurs alternatifs à combustion interne - Partie 5 : groupes électrogènes
http://www.boutique.afnor.org/norme/nf-iso-8528-5/groupes-el...

BS ISO 8528-5:2005
Reciprocating internal combustion engine driven alternating current generating sets. Generating sets
http://shop.bsigroup.com/en/ProductDetail/?pid=0000000000300...
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : 'alternator' is the preferred modern term; 'generator' is confusing, as often used to refer to the entire genset (as in your ref. to the Cummins model) / I think you have completely reversed the situation: it is 'generator' that risks "coinciding"
13 mins
alternator is possible, too, but should be avoided here as it conincides with the generating set. // What about IEC's standardized terms (a.c. generator/alternateur vs. generator set/groupe)?
agree chris collister : See note above
15 mins
Thank you!
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