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Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

Companía lírica

English translation:

Musical theatre and opera companies - or nothing

Added to glossary by Justin Peterson
Jul 11, 2017 11:57
6 yrs ago
4 viewers *
Spanish term

Companía lírica

Spanish to English Art/Literary Cinema, Film, TV, Drama Theater
Compañía lírica o compañía del género lírico es el nombre que desde el siglo XIX han recibido en España e Hispanoamérica las agrupaciones profesionales especializadas en la puesta en escena de diversos tipos de espectáculo mixto de teatro y música. Sus precedentes pueden situarse en las compañías de ópera y opereta y el teatro musical ilustrado del siglo XVIII;1 del mismo modo que su continuación puede rastrearse en el musical del siglo XX.

What would we call this in English? Any translation?? Theatre experts???
Proposed translations (English)
3 Musical theatre and opera companies - or nothing
4 Opera Company
4 Lyric company

Discussion

Domini Lucas Jul 25, 2017:
Thank you so very much but no Kudoz Points please Thank you so much for awarding me the Kudoz points. I really enjoyed participating in the discussion and the chance to learn more through it. However, although I am really chuffed and honoured that you chose to award me the KudoZ points, would you mind terribly if I decline to have them? I feel that others also made the same points in different ways so I feel uncomfortable about receiving them. I hope that's ok. Thank you so very much though.
Justin Peterson (asker) Jul 16, 2017:
Thanks to everyone for your input. In the end it prompted quite the discussion!
Domini Lucas Jul 12, 2017:
Sandro's comment That's very interesting. Hadn't thought of wondering what my reaction to the English would have been out of context. I guess before this discussion if I saw any of those I would have just taken it as a company name and not thought any more about it. If down as a genre I would have assumed a link with opera from my knowledge of the aforementioned Greek Opera company and looked it up in a dictionary to establish a precise English meaning. And/or yes, assumed some kind of link with lyrics, probably of the sung variety. Out of curiosity I just asked my well educated musical husband what he assumes lyric company, lyric theatre company and lyric genre are. His reply: lyric company: sth to do with words in song. And or productions such as Evita, Les Mis, Joseph where all the words are sung (as opposed to Cole Porter etc style musicals where words are both spoken and sung). For lyric genre /theatre company he assumed sth to do with Shakespeare as "written in lyrics"! Hmmm
Sandro Tomasi Jul 12, 2017:
Perhaps: lyric theatre company I am persuaded by Neil's link: www.lyrictheatre.co.uk/ since it demonstrates a natural equivalency of the term. However, it seems that both natural terms, companía lírica and lyric theatre, are elliptical forms of (perhaps) companía lírica de teatro and lyric theatre company. This is a guess.

If I see “lyric theatre,” I can more or less tell that it involves theatre and lyrics. But if I see “lyric company,” my first guess would be a company that writes lyrics. However, if I see “lyric theatre company,” I would think it is a company that does theatre with lyrics.
Domini Lucas Jul 12, 2017:
Lyric not lyrical Sorry I meant "lyric" not lyrical. That would confuse things!
Domini Lucas Jul 12, 2017:
Neilmac's comment re education of readers I agree and also think that folk interested in languages and the way languages work have some extra insights as they are (hopefully) always wanting to stretch their linguistic horizons. In all this, is the important point is that, should Justin decide that his target readership is educated enough, lyrical might well be the right choice? Would that it is so as it would seem to simplify things! Otherwise he is back to having to weigh the intricacies previously discussed. Is that a fair summary? Perhaps "lyric company" in English in quotation marks might provide a solution?
neilmac Jul 12, 2017:
Re: "I wonder if average UK reader would ..." Domilu has a point. I suppose it depends on how well-educated one assumes the "average" person is. I was surprised recently when helping with funeral arrangements that the family didn't know that "tome" was an English word, nor did they know what a thanatorium was, nor the Greek god Thanatos ( I think I learnt that last one from a Hammer horror movie)...
Sandro Tomasi Jul 11, 2017:
Understand and Agree with DomiLu I see that “puesta en escena” is analogous to bring to the stage, not props alone. Here is an example: El elenco de la compañía lírica encargada de poner en escena el estreno en 1910 de la "opereta bíblica" titulada La corte de Faraón.
https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compañía_lírica
neilmac Jul 11, 2017:
Agree with Domilu In fact, I was just about to post the same. It's NOT just a props company. The "puesta en escena" here means putting on the show.
Domini Lucas Jul 11, 2017:
Puesta en escena: Staging To my knowledge puesta en escena here is the entire staging of the productions by said 'compañias' not translated as the props, backdrops and/or stage design specifically in this instance. I.e. The act of bringing them to the stage. And the focus of the translation query is the 'compañias' as entities without splitting them into performers and/or technical staff. On re-reading that's still how I read it, but I do agree that there are problems with translating the original term Justin queried.
Sandro Tomasi Jul 11, 2017:
A lot of problems with the term. To call it a ¨musical theatre company,¨ an ¨opera company¨ or a combination thereof would be misleading, IMO. Both of those terms, to my layman´s ears, sound like they would provide the performers, not so much the scenic backgrounds and props. For that much, I would just call it a theatre prop company -- even though that doesn´t sound very glamorous.
patinba Jul 11, 2017:
@Justin You can either pick the other answer, or make the change when glossing it. Cheers!
Justin Peterson (asker) Jul 11, 2017:
Patinba: "musical theatre" is brilliant YES, that's the idea. Quite obvious, but I didn't see it. Thank you very much. (You'll want to resubmit the answer as musical theatre to win the
kudoz points). Thanks again.
Sandro Tomasi Jul 11, 2017:
Leaving it as is would be like this: 抒情歌公司, in Chinese. Can anyone tell that that is a literal translation of compañía lírica in Chinese? An industry-standard term would be appropriate.
Justin Peterson (asker) Jul 11, 2017:
Thank you, very helpful The context is perfectly clear. The concept is to help other translators, if you have an answer, not to nitpick about the phrasing of the question, and ask for context when it's crystal clear. Thanks for the "help"
philgoddard Jul 11, 2017:
That's a different question, and you should post it separately with examples of context.
Compañía lírica is not a genre, but part of the names of many theatre companies, so it should be left untranslated.
Justin Peterson (asker) Jul 11, 2017:
"género lírico", more correctly ... is the question
Justin Peterson (asker) Jul 11, 2017:
later it refers to "este género" ... and I want to clarify WHAT genre (I'm not translating the name of the company)
philgoddard Jul 11, 2017:
Why would you translate it?

Proposed translations

2 hrs
Selected

Musical theatre and opera companies - or nothing

To my knowledge we don't have an exact equivalent umbrella term in English (I have worked in the industry). Interestingly Greek also has the term, as is evidenced by the National Opera House being known as Ethniki Lyriki Skene (Transliterated). However, from memory, unless a colleague can show it is limited to opera and operetta, in Spain it covers Opera, Zarzuela and what we in the UK would call Musical Theatre as a distinct genre, so you might want to just say "Compañía lírica" or "compañía del género lírico" in "quotation marks" and translate the remainder as an explanation with or without a footnote. And then put ´this genre´ or ´this art form´(perhaps better in the plural depending on how you word the rest of your translation. If not I think you will have to list all the various genres that apply in Spain e.g. Musical Theatre and Opera Companies (but then you would be omitting the important Zarzuela etc).

An example of the problem can be found here http://www.bbc.co.uk/education/guides/z2hr7ty/revision
where it describes as the genres we refer to in English as overlapping
(not intended to be a school level link on purpose: twas the first I found that was so clear).

I have a similar problem when I have to use the word artistes e.g. on my CV or when I needing an umbrella term to describe ballet dancers, orchestra musicians, opera singers and actors our office brought to a national festival. Artistes is the nearest I can get without including a long list, but always feels as if it really reduces the beauty, expertise and individualism of the artists concerned to a rather nondescript common denominator.

Hope this is of some help.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2017-07-11 14:12:30 GMT)
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p.s. I had not seen Patinba's comment when I posted mine so it was not intended to cross over.

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Note added at 24 days (2017-08-05 00:55:49 GMT) Post-grading
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You are so very kind. Support told me it is not possible to divide points but that they can be contacted if someone wants to retract points. Either way thanks so much and hope your week has gone well. Take care.
Note from asker:
Thank YOU. That´s nice of you, but I'm not sure how to retract points, or divide them. Just consider it good karma.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Sandro Tomasi : Asker posted: “escena de diversos tipos de espectáculo mixto de teatro y música.” Do you know if there are other acts other than musical theatre and opera that they would set up for?
23 mins
Operetta and or the Spanish zarzuela are to my knowledge slightly distinct and, if the text is in Spanish from Spain,I believe that strictly speaking it is important to allow for them.But that could vary depending on the remaining context. opereta feature
neutral philgoddard : I agree that it should be left in Spanish, but you also seem to be saying it should be translated. Either way, "opera company" and "musical theatre" are wrong in my opinion.
31 mins
I was trying to give the options if a translation was wanted & explain why I think that the 2 individual terms potentially available are partial & therefore, not totally sufficient in themselves so at least both would be needed. Apologies if not clear.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
1 hr

Opera Company

This term usually refers to opera companies. If they do not perform any operatic works, then "Musical Theatre Company" might do.

Musical theatre is a form of theatrical performance that combines songs, spoken dialogue, acting, and dance. The story and emotional content of a musical – humor, pathos, love, anger – are communicated through the words, music, movement and technical aspects of the entertainment as an integrated whole. Although musical theatre overlaps with other theatrical forms like opera and dance, it may be distinguished by the equal importance given to the music as compared with the dialogue, movement and other elements. Since the early 20th century, musical theatre stage works have generally been called, simply, musicals.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Domini Lucas : I agree Musical Theatre today is taken to mean musicals alone and cannot include opera, operetta etc. Plus the asker's context goes back to before the 20th century. It's infuriating though as I would have agreed with MT being the obvious term otherwise
3 hrs
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6 hrs

Lyric company

Literally.
There are several famous ones, such as the Boston Lyric opera...
Cf the Lyric Theatre in London.

https://lyrictheatre.co.uk/

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/lyric

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Note added at 6 hrs (2017-07-11 18:17:28 GMT)
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Literary Culture and U.S. Imperialism: From the Revolution to World ...
https://books.google.es/books?isbn=0195131509
John Carlos Rowe - 2000 - ‎History
Perhaps Belém's opera-goers were afflicted by what José Veríssimo referred to in a similar case as musicofilia, a mania for music “that requires a lyric company ...

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Note added at 6 hrs (2017-07-11 18:17:57 GMT)
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"... the impresario was expected to bring to Rio de Janeiro a lyric company made up of twelve soloists and twenty singers, ..."

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Note added at 6 hrs (2017-07-11 18:18:35 GMT)
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South American Cinema/ Cine De America Del Sur: Dictionary of Film ...
https://books.google.es/books?isbn=084772011X
Luis Trelles Plazaola - 1989 - ‎Biography & Autobiography
... of the Argentine cinema, one of its pioneers, bom in Barletta (Italy) in 1978 who arrived in Buenos Aires as a musician as part of a lyric company in 1905.

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Note added at 6 hrs (2017-07-11 18:19:06 GMT)
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Memoir of My Youth in Cuba: A Soldier in the Spanish Army During the ...
https://books.google.es/books?isbn=0817358927
Josep Conangla i Fontanilles, ‎Joaquín Roy - 2017 - ‎Biography & Autobiography
To distract themselves by going to the theater, and by preference, to the Albisu, where a lyric company of notable artists was performing the most popular ...

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Note added at 6 hrs (2017-07-11 18:21:12 GMT)
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FWIW, I posted the Google book references to illustrate that the literal translation "lyric company" has frequently been used...

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Note added at 1 day6 hrs (2017-07-12 18:05:03 GMT)
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PS: Just seen the comments in Discussion about "género lírico", which I think can be termed "lyric genre":
Lyric genre - SlideShare
https://www.slideshare.net/fherkastelan/lyric-genre
Mar 9, 2017 - Literature. In this presentation you will find basic information about the lyric genre, such as types of poetry, authors, examples

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Note added at 1 day6 hrs (2017-07-12 18:06:15 GMT)
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As we can see from the definition "lyric" is a specific adjective when used in this sense.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lyric poem
Example sentence:

Reacting to the large sums paid by the government to an Italian Lyric company, for example, ...

Reference:

http://www.linguee.com/english-spanish/translation/lyric+company.html

https://blo.org/

Note from asker:
Lyric company IS a legitimate translation, but I was concerned that readers might not understand it, or find it strange, so I had to make a judgment call. Thanks, in any case.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Domini Lucas : Interesting links. I googled as aware of word in eg London's LyricTheatre but couldn't find it commonly used with Spanish meaning in modern times. Only reason for not agreeing: I wonder if average UK reader would identify meaning Do you think more US Eng?
31 mins
No, it's perfectly good UK English. But whether the majority of people will know it or not is moot.
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