Nov 28, 2017 00:24
6 yrs ago
Russian term
Canada
допустить существование
Russian to English
Other
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
Popular science article
Ученые допустили существование океанов на древней Венере
Looking for suggestions for translating the phrase "допустить существование" in this context?
Examples: conceded/assumed/accepted the existence of
Thanks for your suggestions :)
Looking for suggestions for translating the phrase "допустить существование" in this context?
Examples: conceded/assumed/accepted the existence of
Thanks for your suggestions :)
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+4
43 mins
Rachel Douglas
United States
United States
Native in English
Works in field
United States
Excellent English from Russian originals
Native in: English (Variants: British, Australian, US)
Works in: Russian to English
Related KudoZ points
:
220
Selected
think/conclude/believe that ... may have existed
I would avoid conceding/admitting etc., and express the idea in this other way. But it would also make a difference whether your "ученые" are "the scientists" who conducted a particular study, or "scientists" in general.
If the first: "The scientists concluded that oceans may have existed on ancient Venus."
Or (depending on the nature of their investigation: "[The] scientists believe [that] oceans may have existed on ancient Venus." (If it's a headline, omit the words in square brackets.)
If the second: "Scientists have concluded that oceans may have existed on ancient Venus."
All the "hesitancy" and "allowed as how it might have been so" are captured in the verb "may have."
If the first: "The scientists concluded that oceans may have existed on ancient Venus."
Or (depending on the nature of their investigation: "[The] scientists believe [that] oceans may have existed on ancient Venus." (If it's a headline, omit the words in square brackets.)
If the second: "Scientists have concluded that oceans may have existed on ancient Venus."
All the "hesitancy" and "allowed as how it might have been so" are captured in the verb "may have."
Note from asker:
| Rachel, thank you for your detailed and very well-articulated answer. Under normal conditions I absolutely agree with you and would have use a construction similar to what you have suggested. I should have added more context to my question from the beginning. The client would like me to stay as close to a "word unit for word unit" basis as possible (yes, I know an almost impossibility in the Russian to English pair), as these texts will be used in the development of machine translation. I have very little wiggle room in terms of stylistic interpretation. It's a very tall order and why I've been stuck on the phrasing of this particular sentence. I'll keep working on it and try to find a happy medium. Thank you for your thoughtful input! |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
The Misha
: Just like I thought,it would in fact be so much more natural to render it with a THAT clause instead of mimicking the original Russian syntax here.With such a sentence structure,the choice of verb here really becomes but a matter of personal preference.
42 mins
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Thanks, Misha, though it turns out that Allison's customer doesn't want "natural," but robotic.
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| agree |
Lazyt3ch
1 hr
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Thanks, Rashid.
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| agree |
Tatiana Karymshakova
1 hr
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Thanks, Tatiana.
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| agree |
Jack Doughty
6 hrs
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Thanks, Jack.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
6 mins
Daniel Frisano
Italy
Italy
Italy
100% human translation, always
Native in: Italian 
Works in: English to Italian, French to Italian, German to Italian, and 14 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
8
concede the existance
"To concede" conveys "to acknowledge hesitantly". This seems to be the case. They admit that it MIGHT be true, but they can't be sure.
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Note added at 7 mins (2017-11-28 00:31:33 GMT)
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Geez... it's "existence". Sorry for the typo.
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Note added at 7 mins (2017-11-28 00:31:33 GMT)
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Geez... it's "existence". Sorry for the typo.
Note from asker:
| Yes, those were my thoughts too. Concede (as in to concede the possibility) is what I have been leaning toward, but it's always great to get feedback from other translators. Thanks! |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
The Misha
: I don't think you can use concede in the sense of making an assumption or allowance for sth.Even if you read it as if at first they denied this existence and then changed their minds,you'd still want to say they "conceded THAT there may have been oceans"
16 mins
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+1
4 mins
to admit
as an option )
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Note added at 6 мин (2017-11-28 00:30:31 GMT)
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Scientists admitted the existence of oceans on Venus long ago
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Note added at 1 час (2017-11-28 01:28:11 GMT)
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http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/stephen-hawkins-admits-intel...
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Note added at 6 мин (2017-11-28 00:30:31 GMT)
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Scientists admitted the existence of oceans on Venus long ago
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Note added at 1 час (2017-11-28 01:28:11 GMT)
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http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/stephen-hawkins-admits-intel...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Susan Welsh
: I think this is better than "concede," which implies agreement in opposition to someone who thinks you're wrong (also as in conceding an election or conceding defeat in a ballgame).//Actually I meant to vote for "accept" rather than "admit." Sorry!
34 mins
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Thanks a lot! I think "admit" is a common verb for scientific hypotheses// No problem. I still think that "admit" is the best ))
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| neutral |
Lazyt3ch
: По-моему, смысл искажен. Вот другой пример: "admitted the existence of aliens" https://www.google.com/search?q="admitted the existence of a...
P.S. Ув. «эксперт», статья по Вашей ссылке ничего не доказывает. Грамматику поштудируйте, что ли...
2 hrs
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+1
2 hrs
do not rule out the possibility
Ученые допустили существование океанов на древней Венере
->
The scientists do not rule out the possibility that oceans may have existed on ancient Venus
Rule out, exclude, etc.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2017-11-28 02:56:13 GMT)
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Correction:
The scientists do not rule out the possibility that oceans existed on ancient Venus
->
The scientists do not rule out the possibility that oceans may have existed on ancient Venus
Rule out, exclude, etc.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2017-11-28 02:56:13 GMT)
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Correction:
The scientists do not rule out the possibility that oceans existed on ancient Venus
2 hrs
Alexander Teplitsky
Native in Russian
MS ME Translating for 20 Years
Native in: Russian
Works in: English to Russian, Russian to English
Related KudoZ points
:
16
assume an existing...
Синонимы: допустить - предположить.
+2
4 hrs
Scientists suggest that Venus may have had oceans in its distant past.
)))
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Lazyt3ch
3 hrs
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Спасибо, Рашид.
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| agree |
IrinaN
: https://phys.org/news/2017-08-simulations-venus-ocean.html
13 hrs
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8 hrs
Scientists generally agree
For instance:
Scientists generally agree that ancient Venus may have had oceans on its surface.
This is how they would normally phrase it on National Geographic :)
Scientists generally agree that ancient Venus may have had oceans on its surface.
This is how they would normally phrase it on National Geographic :)
+1
11 hrs
Michael Korovkin
Italy
Italy
Native in Russian
&
English
Works in field
Italy
Native in: English 
, Russian
Works in: Russian to English, English to Russian, Italian to Russian, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
128
scientists [now] alow for the existence of oceans on... etc.
less wordy.
"don't rule out" by Rashid is also very good: one agree for him!
"don't rule out" by Rashid is also very good: one agree for him!
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Turdimurod Rakhmanov
: How can scientists allow for the existence? Should they allow for the existence of smth. Interesting. you'd both rather read carefully what the Asker wants than boasting about your English!
36 mins
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no, they don't accept it: they don't rule it out, which is quite different a kettle of fish ++ you mean carefully? I did. And tht's the trouble.
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| agree |
The Misha
: That was my original idea all along. Hey, even our learned buddy found it "interesting":)
2 hrs
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Mish, perhaps our learned buddy should still dedicate some of his doubtless valuable time to practicing and learning consuetudinal English.
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3 hrs
Turdimurod Rakhmanov
Kyrgyzstan
Kyrgyzstan
Works in field
Kyrgyzstan
Education, Legal, Technical & Medical
Native in: Uzbek (Variants: Tashkent, Ferghana valley, Samarkand-Bukhara, Khorezm) , Kirghiz
Works in: English to Uzbek, English to Kirghiz, English to Kazakh, and 26 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
28
accept the existence
accept / recognize the existence:
I see most useful suggestions here, however, according to Asker, ( as close to a "word unit for word unit" basis as possible), I am suggesting my version:
In this context, it says:
Ученые допустили существование океанов на древней Венере
It means IMHO, Scientists accepted or said "yes" that oceans may have existed on ancient Venus
It means that discovery is accepted by the scientific community, before this, scientists claimed (or thought) existence of the ocean, but now they confirm and accept this discovery.
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Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2017-11-29 02:11:21 GMT)
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Let's imagine that a group of scientists are about to come to one conclusion.
Imagine as if it is a voting process (just for clarification)
A group of scientists came to one conclusion, unanimously decided or voted or most of scientists said "YES", in other words they "accepted" the existence of oceans on Venus.
OR in other case:
A group of scientists came to one conclusion, unanimously decided or voted or most of scientists said "NO", in other words they "denied" the existence of oceans on Venus.
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Note added at 1 day 2 hrs (2017-11-29 02:59:44 GMT)
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What is confusing in here is "допустить", we sometimes understand it as "допустить существование" itself, not as "допустить существование океанов как теория, открытия"
in English we try to render as "allow, admit or suggest, assume etc.", just by mentioning scientists' opinion, not the fact.
I see most useful suggestions here, however, according to Asker, ( as close to a "word unit for word unit" basis as possible), I am suggesting my version:
In this context, it says:
Ученые допустили существование океанов на древней Венере
It means IMHO, Scientists accepted or said "yes" that oceans may have existed on ancient Venus
It means that discovery is accepted by the scientific community, before this, scientists claimed (or thought) existence of the ocean, but now they confirm and accept this discovery.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2017-11-29 02:11:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Let's imagine that a group of scientists are about to come to one conclusion.
Imagine as if it is a voting process (just for clarification)
A group of scientists came to one conclusion, unanimously decided or voted or most of scientists said "YES", in other words they "accepted" the existence of oceans on Venus.
OR in other case:
A group of scientists came to one conclusion, unanimously decided or voted or most of scientists said "NO", in other words they "denied" the existence of oceans on Venus.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 2 hrs (2017-11-29 02:59:44 GMT)
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What is confusing in here is "допустить", we sometimes understand it as "допустить существование" itself, not as "допустить существование океанов как теория, открытия"
in English we try to render as "allow, admit or suggest, assume etc.", just by mentioning scientists' opinion, not the fact.
Note from asker:
| Yes, I think this is the best alternative given the client's specifications. Thank you for your input. |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Michael Korovkin
: no, they don't accept it: they don't rule it out, which is quite different a kettle of fish ++ you mean carefully? I did. And tht's the trouble.
7 hrs
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I agree about the version: "Don't rule out", but not completely, reading all the suggested answers and reading Asker's will, I suggested mine. Here the meaning of 'accept' is not the one that you think. "Accept" is the best fit here. accepted
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Discussion
Well, that's enough: I rest my case.
Do you mean to say that "A team of researchers.. has found EVIDENCE suggesting.." or "Simulations suggests'' are somehow tantamount to "Scientists suggest"? You must be joking! :)
Ideally, translators should understand the original phrase as accurately as possible, not just assume this and that (though it may be helpful, too). Sure, they can try and guess, but in cases like this one they might unintentionally distort the meaning.
I believe that in this particular situation (oceans on Venus), the meaning of the verb “допустили” is not confusing at all for most native Russian speakers.
That’s right, and if the translator forgets to add “the possibility of” or something like that, the original meaning may be “slightly” distorted.
P.S. Sorry, maybe I misunderstood what you’ve said (or, vice versa, maybe you misunderstood what I intended to say). I provided the "admitted the existence of aliens" Google link in my comment to VASKON’s answer only as a “mis-example” to illustrate that his answer distorts the original meaning.
P.P.S. You must’ve got me mixed up with VASKON because I put @VASKON in my previous post. Let me remind you that in web-speak, using @ as a prefix means that the post is addressed to the specified person.
Поскольку Вы предпочли проигнорировать мой комментарий к Вашему ответу, продублирую свой пример здесь.
Гуглоссылка:
"admitted the existence of aliens"
https://www.google.com/search?q="admitted the existence of a...
Впрочем, чего это я пытаюсь что-то доказывать «эксперту»...
P.S. Попробую перевести Ваш перевод обратно на русский. Вот одна из возможных трактовок:
Scientists admitted the existence of oceans on Venus long ago
->
Ученые давным-давно признали, что на Венере существуют океаны.
Желающие покидаться камнями, welcome! :)
Inelegant as they might appear to the literati, there should be dry, rigid and preferably short terms/expressions appropriate to this, dry and rigid, presumably scientific narrative.