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Garfitos de maíz
Línea de affichage y montaje
Jun 24, 2018 18:42
5 yrs ago
11 viewers *
Spanish term

prebenda

Spanish to English Social Sciences Government / Politics Colombia - government
I actually would like to understand the difference between "prebenda" and "canonjía" in the following phrase (it's from Iván Duque's acceptance speech):

Acá nunca se pensó en una coalición de prebendas y mucho menos de canonjías, aquí se trató siempre de respaldar un programa y por eso hoy puedo con la frente en alto y con el cuerpo erguido decirle a los colombianos que conformaremos un gabinete con las mejores personas, con la mejor formación, con el mejor compromiso ético.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 perks/cushy jobs
4 +2 cronyism / jobs for the boys
3 +2 sinecures
References
prebenda vs canonjía in the Church

Discussion

Charles Davis Jun 26, 2018:
No, thank you, Chema! It's always a real pleasure to discuss things with you and be made to think harder.
Chema Nieto Castañón Jun 26, 2018:
@Charles I think you've got it!
Perks and privileges sounds perfect here! -to me at least ;)
With adding privileges I think you close the circle around the original prebendas in this context.
And so perks and privileges for prebendas and cronyism for canonjía.
Good job!
I am fully satisfied with that! :)))
Thank you so much for the trip, Charles!!
Charles Davis Jun 26, 2018:
@Chema Maybe "perks" would be best after all; it can mean both "an extra payment or benefit that you get in your job" and more generally "a benefit or advantage that you get from a situation". Perhaps "perks and privileges"?
Chema Nieto Castañón Jun 26, 2018:
@Charles As per dictionary, venal/venality sounds a bit too harsh as the term seems inequivocally related to bribery or corruption. Prebenda might fall in that category but although a negative term it relates to unethical behaviour more so than to an illegal one. Nest feathering might work here though.
As for cronyism I think it is definitely the right term for canonjía in the given context.
Charles Davis Jun 26, 2018:
@Chema I have to admit it's difficult to argue with what you say about "prebendas". Even the notaría might be not so much a job as a negotiable asset, which the recipient could turn into cash.

Maybe "venality" would express the "prebendas" part, in a fairly high register. A more colloquial term that occurs to me is "nest-feathering":

"feather (one's) own nest
To utilize one's position at work for one's own monetary gain."
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/feather your own nest

" Nest Feathering
Here's a plea to all government officials: Come up with a better reason to justify high public-sector salaries and benefits."
http://www.governing.com/blogs/view/Nest-Feathering.html

And for the canonjías part, intepreting it as referring to jobs, I keep coming back to "cronyism":

"Cronyism is the practice of partiality in awarding jobs and other advantages to friends, family relatives or trusted colleagues, especially in politics and between politicians and supportive organizations. For instance, this includes appointing "cronies" to positions of authority, regardless of their qualifications."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronyism
Chema Nieto Castañón Jun 25, 2018:
@Charles Hi Charles,
As you can surely notice your previous example of prebendas ("como prebenda política") can be perfectly read as a (non-ethical) benefit; recibió la notaría como "regalo/premio/pago" político. As for the particular use of prebendas and canonjías here - una coalición de prebendas; una coalición de canonjías- my own reading is to interpret that as "(formar) una coalición para conseguir prebendas [beneficios, regalías, ventajas]; una coalición para conseguir canonjías [para hacerse con puestos en los que no hacer nada]. I feel you might be right though in reading the counterbalance of canonjía not in work/responsibility but in choosing the best people, and so the stress of canonjía would then be that of cronyism, which makes perfect sense.

And so, yes, I think you are definitely right about cronyism / canonjía; jobs for the boys.
As for prebendas I am quite sure there is no other reading here than as non-ethical regalos/beneficios/ventajas. It is up to you though to tell me the best word or expression to convey that in English! ;)
Saludos!
Charles Davis Jun 25, 2018:
(Continued) However, although it may be true that "prebendas" means benefits, financial or otherwise, and "canonjías" means jobs, I think the context clearly implies that the key point is cronyism: it's not a question of the nature of the job (and a position in government is hardly a sinecure); it's more a question of who gets it. I am pretty sure Duque is referring to giving jobs to political friends rather than to the best-qualified candidate. So I still feel "cronyism" or "jobs for the boys" best capture what is meant here, though both are more colloquial than the original.
Charles Davis Jun 25, 2018:
@Chema You may be right. I don't entirely agree with your premise; you can find "prebenda" applied to jobs as well as perks or benefits, and "canonjía" applied to perks or benefits as well as jobs. I still maintain that they are often (I would say usually) used synonymously; see my Mexican example, where exactly the same favour is called a "prebenda" in the headline and a "canonjía" in the body text, and both terms refer to something that is neither a job nor a perk. But if we look specifically at Colombian usage, it's quite true that "prebenda" usually means some kind of benefit. A "dádiva o prebenda" in healthcare is basically a bribe given by pharmaceutical companies to doctors, for example:
https://www.minsalud.gov.co/comunicadosPrensa/Documents/Borr...

Though it can also be a "plum job":

"Ex senador Alirio Villamizar niega haber recibido una notaria como prebenda política."
http://caracol.com.co/programa/2010/03/09/noticiero_del_medi...

(continued in next post)
Chema Nieto Castañón Jun 25, 2018:
That being said I might think of using perks for prebendas and maybe sinecure for canonjías. It must be noted that the tone of the original is rather formal although understandable. And that the use of canonjías seems to stress here the lack of an assumed function or responsibility more than the inner ease of the job itself.
Chema Nieto Castañón Jun 25, 2018:
Prebendas vs. Canonjías 2/2 "Traduciendo" así el párrafo en cuestión;
[Acá nunca se pensó en una coalición de prebendas y mucho menos de canonjías, aquí se trató siempre de respaldar un programa y por eso hoy puedo...]

Nosotros no pensamos en crear una coalición política para obtener beneficios o ventajas (inmerecidos) y mucho menos para ocupar un puesto sin asumir las responsabilidades inherentes al mismo; nosotros planteamos formar una coalición para trabajar responsablemente en la construcción y desarrollo político de un programa de gobierno y por eso...

No asumir la responsabilidad política de trabajar y de asumir las responsabilidades propias del cargo es considerado así por Duque más grave que la simple obtención de un lucro, beneficio o regalía por mor del puesto que uno ocupa -o por mor del favor de quien lo ocupa.

En fin, ¡espero que os sirva!
¡si acaso para continuar con un interesantísimo debate!
;)

Saludos varios!
Chema Nieto Castañón Jun 25, 2018:
Prebendas vs. Canonjías 1/2 Creo que el sentido de prebendas y canonjías está en realidad perfectamente diferenciado en origen en este caso; prebendas alude (¡a pesar del DRAE!) a beneficios o ventajas, en tanto que indebidos o inmerecidos, que se podrían pretender obtener por el simple hecho de formar parte de una coalición de gobierno. Ver por ejemplo el revelador artículo recomendado por la Fundeu sobre el sentido de "prebendas";

[Del Diccionario Clave:] [despectivo] Beneficio, favor o ventaja concedidos de forma arbitraria y no por méritos propios o por el esfuerzo realizado: Esos políticos corruptos conceden prebendas a sus amigos».
https://www.fundeu.es/noticia/la-palabra-prebenda-5154/

Canonjías en cambio alude a conseguir puestos de renombre donde no hacer nada, sin responsabilidades asumidas. Se contrapone así la idea de canonjía al de responsabilidad y trabajo efectivo; "aquí se trató siempre de respaldar un programa", esto es, de trabajar (políticamente) con responsabilidad.

(...)
Marcelo González Jun 25, 2018:
@Charles - Yes, infusing the target text with ... ...a metaphor such as this (with plums and tree) may be part of an 'in-kind compensation' strategy, where a different effect is produced, in this case a 'metaphor' compensating for the loss in the allusion to Catholicism. Nice suggestions, Charles. Feel free to post that (metaphor-rich) pairing yourself, as an additional option. As you (and Lorena) know better than most, it's not all about the KudoZ. Cheers :-)
Charles Davis Jun 25, 2018:
@Marcelo "Plum job" is an expression used in British English too, though not specifically in political contexts; it really implies a very good, very attractive job.

But in the US a "political plum" is apparently "an appointive job, especially a sinecure", according to William Safire in Safire's Political Dictionary, where he also cites the expression "shaking the plum tree", coined in the nineteenth century, and later references to "the political plum tree". He even says that the published list of appointive positions is informally called the "Plum Book".
https://books.google.es/books?id=Dt3QCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA546

Maybe you could do something with "political plums" and "the top of the tree"?
Marcelo González Jun 25, 2018:
@Charles - Yes, 'cononjías' being the bigger, ... ...top-of-the-hierarchy abuse, hence my suggestion 'plum appointments' with 'appointments' often reserved for ambassadorships and cabinet-level posts.
Charles Davis Jun 25, 2018:
@François Whatever bilingual dictionaries may say, neither "prebendas" nor "canonjías" necessarily means "perks", though both can mean that. The DLE defines both as lucrative ("cushy") jobs, or sinecures.
Francois Boye Jun 25, 2018:
@ Asker

Private companies provide sometimes nice perks to their executives, but they cannot afford to create cushy jobs if they face competition.

Governments, on the contrary, create cushy jobs to reward the party members and financial contributors to the party's victory at the polls.

Perks in the public service are associated with specific positions or professions or agencies.
Marcelo González Jun 24, 2018:
@Wendy - Though it may be impossible to know.. ...for sure what the author meant with such little context, the use of "y mucho menos..." suggests that the second term is the (slightly) more serious/egregious of the two. So maybe the first could be 'cushy jobs' (i.e., easy jobs) as Francois has suggested, with something along the lines of 'plum appointment' (i.e., a lucrative and high-profile position that may also be 'poco trabajoso') for cononjías. I think 'mucho menos' may be the key to distinguishing between the two.
Francois Boye Jun 24, 2018:
Cushy jobs are given to friends and cronies, whereas perks are associated with a position or a profession. So there is no pejorative connotation associated with perks.

I agree, however, that perks are suspect when they are outrageous.
Wendy Gosselin (asker) Jun 24, 2018:
I wonder if prebendas are government posts for people who supported a candidate (i.e. an actual job) and canonjías are government posts where you just show up to pick up the pay check (i.e. you don't work, akin to the ñoqui in Argentina)
lorenab23 Jun 24, 2018:
@Charles See what happens when you don't bother to check all the meanings of "prebenda"? ;-)
Charles Davis Jun 24, 2018:
Definitely And so is "prebenda":
"4. f. coloq. Oficio, empleo o ministerio lucrativo y poco trabajoso."
http://dle.rae.es/?id=TuMD5FX

Which doesn't help at all to distinguish them. And indeed they are usually synonymous, except that, as the context here suggests, a canonjía ("mucho provecho") is, if anything, more lucrative than a prebenda ("lucrativo").
lorenab23 Jun 24, 2018:
I wonder if in this case "canonjía" is being used with this meaning:
2. f. coloq. Empleo de poco trabajo y bastante provecho.
Real Academia Española © Todos los derechos reservados

Proposed translations

+1
36 mins
Spanish term (edited): prebenda/canonjia
Selected

perks/cushy jobs

cushy job
A job that is easy, stress free, and/or very well paid. Since I got this cushy job managing a toy store, I've gotten to sit around playing with toys all day. Since Sarah got that cushy job with the bank, she has been driving a sports car and is buying a second home!


https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/perk
Note from asker:
I think there's an issue with "cushy jobs" because you could get a cushy job at Macy's but I understand that these are government jobs you get for having provided support to a candidate who then got elected.
Peer comment(s):
agree Marcelo González : I think 'cushy jobs and plum appointments' (with the latter understood as more serious) might be a good option for this pair.
22 mins
Thanks!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "After reading ALL of the discussion entries, I decided to go with your answer. Thanks!"
+2
4 hrs

sinecures

The more formal word

Sinecure - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinecure

A sinecure (from Latin sine = "without" and cura = "care") means an office that requires or involves little or no responsibility, labour, or active service.
‎History · ‎Current usage · ‎United Kingdom

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Note added at 4 hrs (2018-06-24 23:02:56 GMT)
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phrase requests - What's a less obscure word for "sinecure"? - English ...
https://english.stackexchange.com/q/205655

5 answers
The term cushy is often applied to sinecures. (Of a job, task, or situation) undemanding, easy, or secure: cushy jobs that pay you to ski [Oxford Dictionaries ...
How can we use the word sinecure in a sentence? - Quora
https://www.quora.com/How-can-we-use-the-word-sinecure-in-a-...
Sinecure is an word meaning “An office or work requiring little or no work, but still provides good enough salary”. ... She found him an exalted sinecure as a fellow of the Library of Congress. He was provided a sinecure job by his best friend granting 40m a year as a package.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2018-06-24 23:04:45 GMT)
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People who have sinecure jobs, what do you do all day? : AskReddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/.../people_who_have_sinecure_jobs_w...

25 Apr 2016 - 1 answer - ‎1 author
Not myself, but I knew a guy that did "firewatching" for companies. All he did was sit at his post and watch for potential fire hazards as others ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2018-06-24 23:05:25 GMT)
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How To Build An Antifragile Career - Fast Company
https://www.fastcompany.com/3003416/how-build-antifragile-ca...

28 Nov 2012 - “Literary writers should have a menial job or (if possible) a sinecure, and write on the side. Otherwise writing for a living under other people's ...
Peer comment(s):
agree Marcelo González : To reproduce the source text formality, while also producing an equivalent (head-scratching) effect (of leaving the reader wondering what this might all mean) this might be a good option too, as long as the second term were similarly non-transparent.
37 mins
thanks
neutral Francois Boye : sinecure = cushy job, but a cushy job is not a perk
1 hr
no?
agree Jessica Noyes : I don't think this is obscure at all. I like it.
18 hrs
thanks
Something went wrong...
+2
6 hrs

cronyism / jobs for the boys

As suggested in the discussion. I'll transfer what I said there.

I agree with Marcelo that "ni mucho menos" clearly implies that "canonjías" represent a more serious abuse than "prebendas". But it remains difficult to interpret, because really these two words are normally used synonymously in their colloquial meanings; outside strictly eccesiastical contexts they are the same thing and often appear together.

Both can mean cushy or plum jobs, or perks, or simply favours granted to friends, as in this example from Mexico on Vicente Fox and TV channels, which also illustrates the fact that the two words are normally interchangeable:

"Prebendas a medios arriesgan la democracia
Durante el gobierno de Vicente Fox las dos principales televisoras -Televisa y Tv Azteca- ''han conseguido las más grandes canonjías y dispensas legales que grupo particular alguno haya obtenido del Estado mexicano jamás"
http://www.jornada.com.mx/2005/09/25/index.php?section=polit...

Yet here Iván Duque is evidently distinguishing the two, in degree if not in kind. I don't know much about Duque but he is said to be a devout Catholic. He may very well be aware of the difference between ecclesiastical prebends and canonries. Perhaps he is playing on their original meanings. The coalition he refers to is obviously the coalition of the right that put him in power, with Marta Lucía Ramírez and Alejandro Ordóñez. He goes on to refer to cabinet posts: he says they’ll go to the best and most ethical people, implying that they won’t automatically go to political cronies.

So in the light of all this I wonder whether he’s using “prebendas” to mean cronyism in general, and “canonjías” to refer specifically to cabinet positions. The cabinet is like a cathedral chapter, with himself as bishop. I could see this metaphor appealing to the kind of person Duque appears to be.

In British English, I would be tempted to translate this along the following lines: “this was never intended to be a coalition of jobs for the boys, let alone/least of all cabinet jobs…”. The expression “jobs for the boys” is British and I don’t know whether Americans understand it. There is a recent book by Merilee S. Grindle called Jobs for the Boys: Patronage and the State in Comparative Perspective, published by Harvard University Press and largely about political patronage in Latin America:
http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674065703

So perhaps it might work.

However, it might be better not to refer explicitly to cabinet posts for "canonjías", even if that's what he really means by it (as I strongly suspect). Another approach (with a fortuitous alliteration thrown in) might be something like: "this was never intended to be a coalition of cronies/cronyism, least of all at the top". The distinction between "prebendas" and "canonjías" would be that prebendas are posts at any level and canonjías are posts are the top of the hierarchy — just as it is in the Church.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 16 hrs (2018-06-26 11:15:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

After our discussion, I now agree with Chema that the distinction is probably that "prebendas" refers to financial favours and benefits and "canonjías" refers to jobs (not necessarily sinecures) awarded through favouritism. So my revised proposal would be something like:

not ... a coalition of perks and privileges, and certainly not of cronyism
Peer comment(s):
agree Marcelo González : Nice discussion, Charles; valid options indeed. And yes, "for the boys" would also be understood in the U.S., with "old boys' club" being widely used in this context. Cheers
24 mins
Thanks very much, Marcelo :-)
agree Chema Nieto Castañón : As per discussion ;) / Right. But irrelevant ;) What I think is that we are now agreed that you've come out with very good ideas for both original terms!
1 day 10 hrs
Many thanks, Chema :-) Though I think we're now agreed that my first idea was probably not right.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

prebenda vs canonjía in the Church

I don't think the difference between the ecclesiastical meanings of "prebenda" and "canonjía" will help you much with the translation, and virtually no English-speaking reader will understand the English equivalents (prebend and canonry) if you use them. But since you ask, the difference is that although both are benefices (sources of income attached to church appointments), a canonry is a particular type of prebend, specifically the most prestigious (and lucrative) type, giving the holder a seat on the cathedral chapter, with decision-making powers that holders of non-canonical prebends do not have. Here's an explanation:

"CANONJIA. Es un beneficio eclesiástico que tiene anexa la obligacion de celebrar los oficios divinos en la Iglesia catedral o colejial, con los derechos de silla en el coro, i asiento i voz deliberativa en los acuerdos capitulares. Suélese confundir, a menudo, la Canonjia con la Prebenda; pero hablando con propiedad, esta segunda no es mas que el derecho de percibir ciertos frutos o réditos de los bienes de la Iglesia; de donde es que la denominacion de prebendados, no solo conviene a los canónigos, sino tambien a otros clérigos que en la catedral o colejiatas, asisten al coro i prestan otros servicios, gozando por eso de una determinada asignacion de los bienes de la Iglesia, pero sin el derecho de asiento ni voz en los acuerdos capitulares."
Justo Donoso, Diccionario teolójico, canónico, jurídico, litúrjico, bíblico, etc. (Valparaíso, 1855), I, p. 282
https://books.google.es/books?id=8h4AAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA282
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree AllegroTrans : good background, not too sure it will help the asker
2 hrs
I doubt it! But I thought it should be noted for the record. The speaker doubtless had a religious education. I suspect he may be comparing canonries with cabinet posts and prebends with jobs at lower levels, but who knows?
agree Marcelo González
3 hrs
Thanks, Marcelo :-)
agree neilmac
10 hrs
Cheers, Neil :-)
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