Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 13, 2019:

@Lara It's hard to explain why we love certain things, but may dislike (or hate) others. Rather than ignoring your comment, I'll try to explain, in linguistic terms, why I don't like "pine for" as an option for "fazer saudades" (in my context, at least). "Pine" is a plosive and it's not coincidental that many cursewords are plosives. This article (beware: it contains language that some may find offensive) explains this phenomenon in more detail: https://languagedebates.wordpress.com/category/taboo-languag... I'm not saying that "pine" has any resemblance of a curse word, but its phonology is a fact. When I hear of pine, I think of the tree. The meaning you and Frank pointed out is new to me, and I surely made a note of it. But when I compare the two (pining vs. longing), I can't help but like "longing" better. It sounds more euphonic to my ears. On the other hand, "saudades" has a hissing quality to it, it's a sibilant fricative and sounds more poetic than "pining for" INHO. Maybe I'm being linguistically biased, but, honestly, that's how my ears perceive the difference. In the context of poetry, I believe sounds are as important as meaning. I hope this makes sense. :-)

Lara Barnett Jan 11, 2019:

Pine I do not understand how you find "pine" to be "dry". To me it is just as anguished and emotional as "long for", if not more. For example we pine for a long lost friend or a dog will pine if their owner is away.

Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 10, 2019:

@Lara It sounds like "pine for" would be a good candidate for "sentir saudades". The only problem is how it sounds. It doesn't have the same sonority of the word "saudade" in PT. Without wanting to sound judgmental, it sounds kind of dry to me. "Longing" sounds more melodious and poetic in my honest opinion. I'll keep "pine" for future reference, though. Thank you anyway.

Lara Barnett Jan 10, 2019:

TO PINE (FOR) As an afterthought:

"Pine"
"verb
1. to yearn deeply; suffer with longing; long painfully (often followed by for ):
2. to pine for one's home and family.
to fail gradually in health or vitality from grief, regret, or longing (often followed by away ):
Separated by their families, the lovers pined away.
3. Archaic . to be discontented; fret."

Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 10, 2019:

Feeling of longing? Something that just dawned on me was to drop the rhyme thing on lines 1 and 2, and go for meaning, trying to make the translation sound more natural. This is what I have in mind now:

"Oh, how uncertain, in the night ahead,
From a faraway neighboring tavern,
An ancient aria, suddenly, gives me
A feeling of longing I didn't have."

Definition of "saudade" on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudade

Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 10, 2019:

@airmailrpl Thanks! I'll have to think it through. Whenever possible, I'm trying to rhyme or at least use words that sound close enough. Lines 2 and 4 rhyme in PT (vizinha, tinha). It seems like "longing" and "tavern" are too far apart. "Longing" and "neighboring" rhyme perfectly, but I couldn't figure out how to use them together from a grammatical standpoint that's acceptable in English. "For" and "tavern" don't rhyme, but sound close enough, in my opinion. Do you have any suggestion to resolve this?

airmailrpl Jan 10, 2019:

Long for Long for something for which I wasn't longing ..

Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 9, 2019:

fazer saudades I'm leaning towards "long for". As Lara Barnett said, it conveys a "more intense nuance" and, in my view, it's a stronger word. I like it. Using the suggested translation provided by Frank Miller, I moved up part of the phrase to the previous line, trying to create a better sense of balance between the lines. Below is my provisional translation (still work in progress). Not sure how well it flows... Any further comments and suggestions are much appreciated.

"Ah, how uncertain, in the night ahead,
From a faraway neighboring tavern,
An ancient aria, suddenly, makes me
Long for something (that) I wasn't longing for..."

On the other hand, if somehow this is found to be unnatural or inappropriate, I'll consider Gilmar's suggestion and add a footnote that refers to "long for" as another meaning of "sentir saudades". I guess there's no other way, but juggling between meter and meaning.