| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Discussion for ProZ.com & TAUS present: The Great Translation Debate (2011)
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| | Drew MacFadyen 
United States
Local time: 00:42
Spanish to English
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| | Search does not work right | Sep 14, 2011 |
Drew,
Please do look into this, as the search does not seem to work OK.
I could not find Aurora either, neither by first name, nor by last name.
Then I tried the Advanced Search, and selected Argentina as the Country.
The search found 39 registrants, 20 of them displayed on the first page - Aurora was not among them, so I clicked the "Next" button. To my surprise, it did not continue the Argentina list, but simply displayed ALL registrants (976), in other words, it comple... See more Drew,
Please do look into this, as the search does not seem to work OK.
I could not find Aurora either, neither by first name, nor by last name.
Then I tried the Advanced Search, and selected Argentina as the Country.
The search found 39 registrants, 20 of them displayed on the first page - Aurora was not among them, so I clicked the "Next" button. To my surprise, it did not continue the Argentina list, but simply displayed ALL registrants (976), in other words, it completely "forgot" the search criteria.
I tested this for another country, France, same problem. It doesn't matter if I use the "Next" button, or "2" to go to the next page, it always goes back to the full list.
Katalin
[Edited at 2011-09-14 02:12 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Still have problems | Sep 14, 2011 |
Thanks, Drew, but I still cannot find my name.
I got the exact same results Katalin is commenting. I will appreciate your help with this.
Au
ps: in which page do you see me?
| | | | BeaDeer (X)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
| I suggest a shift of focus, from TMs---> TERMINOLOGY. | Sep 14, 2011 |
Michael Beijer wrote:
Yes, it does seem to keep coming back to that problem. My personal opinion is that people like TAUS, and MyMemory, etc. should perhaps shift their focus from TM to TERM BASES.
That is, from TM --> terminology.
That way they could still feed their machines, and no one would have to worry about legal issues.
This is possible for content translated with taxpayers' money. But there isn't a single NDA that I have signed in the past fifteen years with commercial clients which does not include terminology. Uploading of any kind of material to the web or sharing TMs is completely out of the question.
And of course there is the question of intellectual property that is never discussed when it comes to "TM sharing". Under the EU law, a TM belongs to the person or company that has created it. Even in the US one has to agree to sign away (give or sell) one's ownership rights ("work for hire"). The "sweat of the brow" doctrine applies: whoever invests time, money and effort into building a data base, owns the thing. Have you paid for your CAT? If yes, you own the product that you have built with your work. Even if you signed no NDAs regarding terminology, "sharing" TMs means giving away, for free, what you have *worked* to create, so that somebody else may make a profit.
It would seem that freelancers often aren't aware of these implications. Even when they are, they perceive themselves as powerless - the global translation brokering companies have cornered the market and have the upper hand.
I would ask why are legal aspects consistently ignored, left out of such debates?
A legal representative of SDL Trados admitted a few years ago at a FIT conference that, yes, a translator may stand by his or her ownership rights, but that this would cost a translator jobs. Does this mean that we should accept "might makes right" as an axiom?
Years ago I was offered to head a local branch of one of the big international translation brokers. The most significant thing for me was when the founder of the company said "well, translators should get as much as 40% of the price; in return, they will get as much work as they can accept". I replied that working in a sweatshop wasn't my idea of a decent life.
We are NOT gadgets, Jaron Lanier has a point there! Translation requires much skill and expertise, years of study and work. Language changes as culture and technology change. Machines will not be able to replace a human. Not in the long run. Machine translation has its specialised purposes, of course, such as in quickly sifting through large amounts of intelligence data.
But the focus of this particular debate should really be on us, our role in the global world.
We should resist being corralled into (or by) the hive mind.
We should refuse to be commoditized - this is what this debate is really about.
Peace to you all
[Edited at 2011-09-14 14:42 GMT]
[Edited at 2011-09-14 14:48 GMT]
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Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:42
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
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| 'All words are in the public domain.' Michael Beijer | Sep 14, 2011 |
But there isn't a single NDA that I have signed in the past fifteen years with commercial clients which does not include terminology. Uploading of any kind of material to the web or sharing TMs is completely out of the question.
As far as I know there is no way to copyright terminology. That is: bilingual glossaries, consisting of lists of words. Problems arise when there are definitions of these words/terms ...
When I translate a text for a client, I wouldn't go so far as to say that the TM is mine, because, after all, the source material was and remains theirs. However, the glossaries that I create when working on a project are mine, to do with as I please. Which, in my case means: give away for free, as I am a firm believer in free information.
Michael
[Edited at 2011-09-14 19:08 GMT]
| | | | | Help with registration | Sep 14, 2011 |
Hi Drew,
Can you please indicate in which page you see me? I seem not to be in the list. (I have also tried with Humaran [without accent] but that does not work either).
Thanks for your help.
Au
| | | | | Cannot find Aurora's registration either | Sep 15, 2011 |
I registered in the last half-hour, and my name shows up via the registrants search. Out of curiosity, I searched for Aurora via both given name and surname (the latter w/ and w/o accent), and she does not appear as a registrant. I can also confirm that on the second page of the advanced search using Argentina as criterion, the criterion has been 'forgotten' and the general list of 1,000+ participants is what appears.
Both out of concern for a colleague, and wishing for my own par... See more I registered in the last half-hour, and my name shows up via the registrants search. Out of curiosity, I searched for Aurora via both given name and surname (the latter w/ and w/o accent), and she does not appear as a registrant. I can also confirm that on the second page of the advanced search using Argentina as criterion, the criterion has been 'forgotten' and the general list of 1,000+ participants is what appears.
Both out of concern for a colleague, and wishing for my own part to be able to access a reliable, complete list of registrants, I would very much like to see a solution found to this problem.
Thanks! ▲ Collapse
| | | | BeaDeer (X)
English to Slovenian
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| Invite Jaron Lanier to the debate! | Sep 15, 2011 |
If the organisers of this "great translation debate" wanted to make it interesting, an open and thoughtful debate, they should invite Jaron Lanier to the discussion. He is the one person I would love to hear in this setting and would pay to join the debate.
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Drew MacFadyen
United States
Local time: 00:42
Spanish to English
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| Issues with search | Sep 15, 2011 |
That's strange - I am able to search and find Aurora properly, but when pseudo logged as you Katalin I cannot. Not sure why search is working for some and not others. We will fix this straight away - thanks for letting me know.
Drew
| | | | Drew MacFadyen
United States
Local time: 00:42
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Freelance translator perspective | Sep 15, 2011 |
Thank you all for your comments and input.
We are happy to include translators on panels and discussions. It's something we've been trying to do without success. Freelance translators that are willing to participate in the debate should contact me directly. That said a number of the panelists have also been translators.
We expect that there will be people with deep reservations among the participants. And as these are interactive sessions, we hope there will be ample ... See more Thank you all for your comments and input.
We are happy to include translators on panels and discussions. It's something we've been trying to do without success. Freelance translators that are willing to participate in the debate should contact me directly. That said a number of the panelists have also been translators.
We expect that there will be people with deep reservations among the participants. And as these are interactive sessions, we hope there will be ample opportunity to have all views expressed. In the end of course it's participants votes that will decide whether motions are passed or not!
Regards,
Drew ▲ Collapse
| | | | Coti
Argentina
Local time: 02:42
English to Spanish
| Cannot find Aurora's registration either | Sep 28, 2011 |
I have just made the same search (for Aurora) and her name does not come up.
Regards,
Elizabeth Casals
| | | | | Freedom of information and language as a 'living evolving organism' - Cf. JMD and Michael Beijer | Sep 29, 2011 |
With JMD and Michael Beijer.- Just to second that line of argument where terms are concerned. Cf. the (in)famous plant/gene patents issue. By analogy - do we want to apply for a licence or face prosecution (or lend that mental set credence) every time we even think of the noun, 'neem'?
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| What is TAUS? | Sep 29, 2011 |
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| | | | | Pangeanic - cannot enter debate | Sep 29, 2011 |
We are TAUS members and MT developers, but cannot enter the debate. What can be done to have access? I see other TAUS members have had the same problem.
| | | | Drew MacFadyen
United States
Local time: 00:42
Spanish to English
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| Pangeanic - i show you as registered | Sep 29, 2011 |
I pseudo logged in as you and am seeing you as properly registered.
Thanks
Drew
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