| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | The first scam I've encountered in 15 years, involving three countries/regions, what can I do? Thread poster: Jing Hu
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| Tiny bit of advice | Jul 14, 2021 |
Jing Hu wrote:
I've consulted a few lawyer friends, who believe that a law suit and later the enforcement of a ruling over such a great distance would not be plausible. What more can I do?
1. Make sure "Cindy" is a real person and that the "Cindy" who turns up in your results is the person who signed the contract with you. It's common for fraudsters to use fake names and addresses, in which case you are out of luck. See if you can find an investigator in Taiwan to make a few enquiries for you.
2. $5,700 USD is a lot of money. If Cindy is real and can be sued, it may be worth it to travel to Taiwan and sue her for the full amount plus expenses. Your next stop should be to consult one or two lawyers based in Taiwan about your chances of retrieving the money.
3. Proceed according to the advice you receive. But bear in mind that just because a court orders someone to pay you doesn't mean they're actually going to pay.
4. If "Cindy" is fake or if the Taiwanese lawyers don't like your chances of collecting anything from her, then it's time to give up and write it off as a very expensive lesson.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:18
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Get a different lawyer | Jul 14, 2021 |
Jing Hu wrote:
...... I've consulted a few lawyer friends, who believe that a law suit and later the enforcement of a ruling over such a great distance would not be plausible. What more can I do?
Maybe get a different lawyer, I don't know how things are in your country but here in Europe, a simple letter from a lawyer is usually enough to persuade the recalcitrant client to pay up. But you need to find the right lawyer. i.e. a lawyer who is based in the same city in Taiwan where the contract is valid. Surely that isn't too difficult.
When your recalcitrant client receives a letter from a lawyer whose office is right round the corner, it will give them pause. This technique has always worked for me with Italian non.payers. They know what could happen if they get a letter from a local lawyer and they don't do anything about it.
[Edited at 2021-07-14 18:49 GMT]
| | | | LIZ LI 
China
Local time: 01:18
French to Chinese
+ ...
Tom in London wrote:
Maybe get a different lawyer, I don't know how things are in your country but here in Europe, a simple letter from a lawyer is usually enough to persuade the recalcitrant client to pay up. But you need to find the right lawyer. i.e. a lawyer who is based in the same city in Taiwan where the contract is valid. Surely that isn't too difficult.
When your recalcitrant client receives a letter from a lawyer whose office is right round the corner, it will give them pause. This technique has always worked for me with Italian non.payers. They know what could happen if they get a letter from a local lawyer and they don't do anything about it.
[Edited at 2021-07-14 18:49 GMT]
Well, not that practical in China, particularly with an individual from TW involved...
It would be something like a lawsuit from Argintina under local jurisdiction against a Falklander...
(FYI, China backs Argintina on it, and the Chinese name of this tiny island is translated from Malvinas, instead of Falkland) - FOR INFORMATION ONLY, NO INTENTION OF FURTHER DICUSSION!
| | | | Yuxuan Zhang
Australia
Local time: 03:18
English to Mandarin Chinese
| Contact book publishers | Jul 15, 2021 |
As you mentioned that there is already a 2013 Chinese edition of the same book by the same author. Probably you can contact the publisher ask them whether any enhancement is needed based on readers' feedback. Don't let your effort be wasted!
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LIZ LI wrote: Tom in London wrote:
Maybe get a different lawyer, I don't know how things are in your country but here in Europe, a simple letter from a lawyer is usually enough to persuade the recalcitrant client to pay up. But you need to find the right lawyer. i.e. a lawyer who is based in the same city in Taiwan where the contract is valid. Surely that isn't too difficult.
When your recalcitrant client receives a letter from a lawyer whose office is right round the corner, it will give them pause. This technique has always worked for me with Italian non.payers. They know what could happen if they get a letter from a local lawyer and they don't do anything about it.
[Edited at 2021-07-14 18:49 GMT] Well, not that practical in China, particularly with an individual from TW involved... It would be something like a lawsuit from Argintina under local jurisdiction against a Falklander... (FYI, China backs Argintina on it, and the Chinese name of this tiny island is translated from Malvinas, instead of Falkland) - FOR INFORMATION ONLY, NO INTENTION OF FURTHER DICUSSION!
In Argentina they say: Las Malvinas son argentinas (Las Malvinas belong to Argentina).
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:18
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Not in China | Jul 15, 2021 |
LIZ LI wrote:
Well, not that practical in China, particularly with an individual from TW involved...
Sorry - it seems I didn't make myself clear.
I'm not saying to do it in China. I'm saying do it in Taiwan, where the contract was made and where the other party resides. The whole thing would be handled within one country (Taiwan) between the lawyer and the non-payer.
[Edited at 2021-07-15 09:19 GMT]
| | | | LIZ LI
China
Local time: 01:18
French to Chinese
+ ...
Tom in London wrote:
Sorry - it seems I didn't make myself clear.
I'm not saying to do it in China. I'm saying do it in Taiwan, where the contract was made and where the other party resides. The whole thing would be handled within one country (Taiwan) between the lawyer and the non-payer.
[Edited at 2021-07-15 09:19 GMT]
Seems like it was me who didn't make it right...
I understand that you suggested to find a local lawyer to "threaten" the lady about the consequences of her being a non-payer.
However, jurisdiction of both sides of the strait is not admitted by the other side.
So you can't really hire a local lawyer to quote a Civil code that is not recognized by themselves.
Wilsonn Perez Reyes wrote:
In Argentina they say: Las Malvinas son argentinas (Las Malvinas belong to Argentina).
So do we.
But we'd better keep focusing on Jing's issue.
[Edited at 2021-07-16 03:45 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:18
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Never threaten | Jul 16, 2021 |
LIZ LI wrote:
I understand that you suggested to find a local lawyer to "threaten" the lady
Your understanding is not correct. Lawyers do not threaten people, and I am certainly not suggesting that they should.
It seems I am still unable to express myself clearly, so here I go again: I am suggesting that the OP contact a lawyer based in the same jurisdiction as the non-payer. The lawyer will deal directly with the non-payer, all in that one jurisdiction.
The location of the person hiring the lawyer is irrelevant.
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Jing Hu
China
Local time: 01:18
English to Chinese
TOPIC STARTER | This is the advice I'm taking | Jul 17, 2021 |
Tom in London wrote: LIZ LI wrote:
I understand that you suggested to find a local lawyer to "threaten" the lady Your understanding is not correct. Lawyers do not threaten people, and I am certainly not suggesting that they should. It seems I am still unable to express myself clearly, so here I go again: I am suggesting that the OP contact a lawyer based in the same jurisdiction as the non-payer. The lawyer will deal directly with the non-payer, all in that one jurisdiction. The location of the person hiring the lawyer is irrelevant.
Actually, after thinking it over, I'm taking your advice and am trying to find a lawyer based in Taipei who can help me. Thanks a trillion for your workable advice! And thank all for your attention and concerns. I really appreciate it.
| | | | Edward Potter
Spain
Local time: 19:18
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Ouch! Hire that local lawyer near your client.
After you do that, maybe you could consult with another lawyer near your client's client since there could be some rights you have with regard to them.
I really hope you have full contact information of "Cindy" and "Henri". You did talk to them with a traditional telephone call, didn't you?
[Edited at 2021-07-17 11:00 GMT]
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
| Regarding phone numbers | Jul 17, 2021 |
Traditional phone numbers in most countries cost nothing whatsoever and don't require any sort of real personal information.
If I needed to talk to you "from", say, North Dakota, USA, I could be "doing" that within 5 minutes. Without so much as a landline phone.
Your caller ID would show North Dakota, you would be able to call me back at that number, it wouldn't cost me anything, and it works equally well for people like myself who haven't stepped foot in ND in 5+ years... See more Traditional phone numbers in most countries cost nothing whatsoever and don't require any sort of real personal information.
If I needed to talk to you "from", say, North Dakota, USA, I could be "doing" that within 5 minutes. Without so much as a landline phone.
Your caller ID would show North Dakota, you would be able to call me back at that number, it wouldn't cost me anything, and it works equally well for people like myself who haven't stepped foot in ND in 5+ years and scammers on other continents entirely.
Edward Potter wrote:
Ouch! Hire that local lawyer near your client.
After you do that, maybe you could consult with another lawyer near your client's client since there could be some rights you have with regard to them.
I really hope you have full contact information of "Cindy" and "Henri". You did talk to them with a traditional telephone call, didn't you?
[Edited at 2021-07-17 11:00 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-07-17 20:15 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-07-17 20:21 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Edward Potter
Spain
Local time: 19:18
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Verifying the person | Jul 17, 2021 |
Edward Potter wrote:
You did talk to them with a traditional telephone call, didn't you?
Clarification: I just meant voice contact, whether to a mobile, land line or speakers/microphone on your computer. We would then have this as opposed to only written communication by email, text, Skype or whatever.
The purpose would to be to do some checking on whether the person is who they say they are. Do they have the accent you would expect? Are they the gender they said they were? Can they answer simple questions about the job on the spot? Do you detect something off in their manner?
It is not foolproof, but it helps.
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Jing Hu
China
Local time: 01:18
English to Chinese
TOPIC STARTER | I heard their voice | Jul 18, 2021 |
Edward Potter wrote: Edward Potter wrote:
You did talk to them with a traditional telephone call, didn't you?
Clarification: I just meant voice contact, whether to a mobile, land line or speakers/microphone on your computer. We would then have this as opposed to only written communication by email, text, Skype or whatever. The purpose would to be to do some checking on whether the person is who they say they are. Do they have the accent you would expect? Are they the gender they said they were? Can they answer simple questions about the job on the spot? Do you detect something off in their manner? It is not foolproof, but it helps.
I did talk to both of them both online and on mobile. Both have Taiwanese accent and both sounded genuine and sincere. AND I was smart enough to include the name, phone #, home address, and the ID # in the contract. I also have a lot of written communications as evidence. So my case would be pretty strong. Now I''ve started to look for qualified lawyers in Taiwan...they are harder to find than good translators!
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:18
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Getting paid | Jul 18, 2021 |
So - Jing Hu - what action have you taken? Have you been paid yet?
| | | | LIZ LI
China
Local time: 01:18
French to Chinese
+ ...
| Pardon my lousy English | Aug 5, 2021 |
Tom in London wrote: LIZ LI wrote:
I understand that you suggested to find a local lawyer to "threaten" the lady Your understanding is not correct. Lawyers do not threaten people, and I am certainly not suggesting that they should. It seems I am still unable to express myself clearly, so here I go again: I am suggesting that the OP contact a lawyer based in the same jurisdiction as the non-payer. The lawyer will deal directly with the non-payer, all in that one jurisdiction. The location of the person hiring the lawyer is irrelevant.
Sorry for the inappropriate wording, if the double quotes didn't do the job...
What exactly does it mean by "dealing directly with the non-payer"?
Drop her/him a call with a local number, and tell her/him that there's someone who sued you across the strait?
If he/she cares, he/she would'n have been a non-payer.
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