| Vom Thema belegte Seiten: < [1 2 3] > | That is not a joke! Initiator des Themas: Levan Namoradze
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| I did the math... | Nov 23, 2006 |
There were two films, with a total of 1008 lines to translate. The lines had an average of 10-12 words.
That makes about 10.000 words for a total of $190. That is about $0.016/word. :/
That is not the biggest problem with that job offer.
The biggest problem is that they wanted the translation done online, using their system.
That meant that you could only see 10 lines to translate at a time (sometimes the last sentence would be the first part of a long sente... See more There were two films, with a total of 1008 lines to translate. The lines had an average of 10-12 words.
That makes about 10.000 words for a total of $190. That is about $0.016/word. :/
That is not the biggest problem with that job offer.
The biggest problem is that they wanted the translation done online, using their system.
That meant that you could only see 10 lines to translate at a time (sometimes the last sentence would be the first part of a long sentence). And you couldn't go back or forth to check what you had done before, or the ending of a broken sentence.
I wrote to them asking for the script, saying it would save precious time. But there was no script available.
I also explained that the job wouldn't take 3-4 h per film (that's what they say on the website), or 10-12 h for the two films (that's what they said in the job offer. We all know how long it takes to translate 10 thousand words, without having to work online, on a website that has real server problems (while I was writing the email I tried to reload the website for about two hours). Also... it was 190 dollars for something that according to them was between 6 and 12 hours work. Now you do the math.
Oh, and you had to sign that you agreed to their terms of use. And they made you specifically give up all the rights to your translation. (!)
But the worst was something else. Believe me.
On that website they said that anyone who is bilingual can subtitle. Oh, yessss! ANYONE. And they invite professional and amateur translators to join in any project and start translating right away. (Basically, they are looking for people who will translate for free).
And then they have a lovely column on the left with the heading "Partner sites" where the name of proz.com is the first one under the heading. That really worried me.
Finally, out of curiosity, I watched the two films in Spanish... The second wasn't too bad. But the first one... pffff. I saw about 350 words worth of translation, and whoever had done it hadn't written a single accent on any word, had used expressions that were absolutely unnatural in Spanish (direct, literal translations from English), had made some typos, and had written "ano" (the last bit of one's digestive tube) instead of "año" (year). Basically... if a 14 year-old student had handed a paper like that, he wouldn't have passed, just for writing mistakes. Very, very sad.
And very, very sad that all this comes from a "premium outsourcer"...
[Edited at 2006-11-23 23:59]
[Edited at 2006-11-24 01:17] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Levan Namoradze 
Georgien
Local time: 01:04
Mitglied (2005)
Englisch > Georgisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER
gianfranco wrote: Sylvano wrote:
Which company is that? Hi Sylvano, sorry but the forum rules expressely forbid to discuss specific outsourcers, for obvious reasons. The forum participants can bring forward and analyse any issue, which is helpful for all readers to know better the market and its various facets, and the names really are not even necessary. bye Gianfranco [Edited at 2006-11-23 23:00]
Yes Gianfranco, I remember rules.
| | | | | "Premium" job? | Nov 24, 2006 |
well, Proz.com strategy is working then...
G
| | | | | Subtitling and any other job | Nov 24, 2006 |
That is why I think if Proz forces job posters to put the fare they are up to pay, we'll know who they are.
I don't think is not legal to have a mandatory field to fill when they submit an offer.
Carmen
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Sylvano
Local time: 23:04
Englisch > Französisch
I found the outsourcer and their website (enough clues in Francesca's report).
Go check it : it's a pile of lies.
Anyone can do subtitling / they're looking for high quality (just pay for it!) / poor filmmakers don't have enough money to pay for subtitles / it's all about philanthropy / and so on...
And they're asking pros to work for free!
I'm going to let them know what I think of that.
| | | | sarahjeanne (X)
Brasilien
Local time: 18:04
Portugiesisch > Englisch
+ ...
| DO SOMETHING! | Nov 24, 2006 |
everyone complains about payment for subtitling being horrible but how many of you actually complain, to the translator or to the company after seeing bad subtitles? how many people DO something about it? supply and demand: if nobody cares that it's a bad translation of course the company will pay the lowest amount possible. i think that translators have a special responsibility to call attention to bad translations and inform others. i live in brazil where horrible translators abound. if y... See more everyone complains about payment for subtitling being horrible but how many of you actually complain, to the translator or to the company after seeing bad subtitles? how many people DO something about it? supply and demand: if nobody cares that it's a bad translation of course the company will pay the lowest amount possible. i think that translators have a special responsibility to call attention to bad translations and inform others. i live in brazil where horrible translators abound. if you studied in the US for three months and your're someone's cousin you get passed translation work. when i first moved here MTV had the some pretty bad subtitiling. i met someone from MTV at a party and i made a point of telling them just how bad their subtitling was and now it has improved. i know that it doesn't always work out like that, but i hate to hear people complain and yet do nothing about it. it's like complaining about a politician when you didn't even vote. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I have returned a DVD to a shop because of bad subtitling... | Nov 24, 2006 |
They looked at me as if I were completely nuts, and I don't know if the reason for returning the DVD ever reached the people who could do something about it.
The problem with this is... how many people do you know who are willing to take the trouble to do something like that?
How many people do you know that will spend a morning at a consumers' office filling in a complaint regarding the quality of the translation in the subtitles of a DVD? And how many people do you know who have th... See more They looked at me as if I were completely nuts, and I don't know if the reason for returning the DVD ever reached the people who could do something about it.
The problem with this is... how many people do you know who are willing to take the trouble to do something like that?
How many people do you know that will spend a morning at a consumers' office filling in a complaint regarding the quality of the translation in the subtitles of a DVD? And how many people do you know who have the ability and the knowledge to tell good translations from bad ones?
It's a difficult issue, indeed. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Manuel Rossetti (X)
Local time: 22:04
My question is, why do these job posters who give such rates that are so low to so many countries yet in proportion to their country's income? Why dont they just hire locally and not try to bring the entire world market down to theirs?
Their motive may not to be to bring the entire world market down to theirs but why do they try to get people who cant make a living in any way out of those extremely low wages try to after them?
We're on a tight budget or so they say. sheesh... See more My question is, why do these job posters who give such rates that are so low to so many countries yet in proportion to their country's income? Why dont they just hire locally and not try to bring the entire world market down to theirs?
Their motive may not to be to bring the entire world market down to theirs but why do they try to get people who cant make a living in any way out of those extremely low wages try to after them?
We're on a tight budget or so they say. sheesh
I block their email addresses. Recently, I've begun to block contracts in which there is no negotiating. ▲ Collapse
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| Don't they abound everywhere??? | Nov 27, 2006 |
Sarah Johnson wrote:
i live in brazil where horrible translators abound.
As a Brazilian translator living in my home country, I must say this is not one of our privileges. All right, we have no earthquakes, no volcanos, no tornados, no snowstorms, and we have a lot of good things too. But in many aspects we run the the whole gamut from the absolute worst to the glorious best.
Abundance stems from the country being large. Last week one Canadian visited here, and realized that the Greater Sao Paulo City has more people than the provinces of Ontario and Quebec together.
Historically, Brazilian economy doesn't have much to brag about. So the local struggle, to lower costs on one side, and to find paying work on the other, is intense.
Though we have many really brilliant, world-class translators in Brazil, there are countless sesquilingual wannabes who now and then give it a try, for peanuts. That's when "offer" meets "demand".
There aren't so many steps where movie distributors can squeeze costs. Equipment and materials are imported. Brazilian dubbers have a strong union. But cohesion-lacking translators abound in all shades and price levels.
My point is that this happens everywhere in the world. I'll use my personal case as an example. I only translate professionally ENPT. As a matter of fact I could translate from IT, FR, and SP. The only reason I don't is my own house policy of not translating FROM a language I'd be unable to translate TO equally well. But I've seen translators whose command of their foreign working language compares to mine in these last three.
So it's not a Brazilian "privilege" after all.
| | | | | Well... actually... | Nov 27, 2006 |
Emily SC wrote:
My question is, why do these job posters who give such rates that are so low to so many countries yet in proportion to their country's income? Why dont they just hire locally and not try to bring the entire world market down to theirs?
Their motive may not to be to bring the entire world market down to theirs but why do they try to get people who cant make a living in any way out of those extremely low wages try to after them?
We're on a tight budget or so they say. sheesh
I block their email addresses. Recently, I've begun to block contracts in which there is no negotiating.
If these ones had to hire locally, they might just be trying to hire YOU.
So it's not a matter of low prices in the local market. I'd rather say it's just a matter of... something else.
| | | | Eleni Makri
Griechenland
Local time: 00:04
Englisch > Griechisch
+ ...
| The sad reality of Greece | Dec 2, 2006 |
Hello, everyone!
I 'm new in proz, actually this is the first time I'm posting a comment.
The saddest thing of all is that this one "client" that made you all laugh, in the best of cases, sounds just like one of the biggest film distribution companies in Greece.
Some years ago, as a young professional I really wanted to do subtitling as well as translation so I worked for them for a while.
Their rate was 100 euros per film and of course nobody knew who the tran... See more Hello, everyone!
I 'm new in proz, actually this is the first time I'm posting a comment.
The saddest thing of all is that this one "client" that made you all laugh, in the best of cases, sounds just like one of the biggest film distribution companies in Greece.
Some years ago, as a young professional I really wanted to do subtitling as well as translation so I worked for them for a while.
Their rate was 100 euros per film and of course nobody knew who the translation was really done by, because at the end of the film the only name that appeared was that of the person who was supposedly doing the "translation and editing" job. That was just one guy who worked for them and who took the credit for the work done by all the freelancers.
The last straw for me was when they asked me to do a 1951 Italian film (Bellissima by Luchino Visconti) without a script! I was supposed to translate what I could hear! So I just returned the film and never worked for them since.
PS: I would really appreciate any tips that you have to give me about making the most of proz. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Do something to change what you don't like... | Dec 5, 2006 |
Sarah Johnson wrote:
everyone complains about payment for subtitling being horrible but how many of you actually complain, to the translator or to the company after seeing bad subtitles? how many people DO something about it? supply and demand: if nobody cares that it's a bad translation of course the company will pay the lowest amount possible.
I have worked in translation companies for over 11 years now and many times they are not only pricing to compete to win the job, but they just have no idea what to charge the client. If you are offered a job for what you consider a ridiculously low rate, why not try to see if you can educate your client so they can charge the correct amount to the client and be able to offer you a reasonable amount?
[Edited at 2006-12-05 22:48]
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JulietteC
Local time: 23:04
Englisch > Französisch
Now I'm horrified :
Proz indirectly makes advertising for this wonderful agency and their wonderful subtitling online system :
http://www.proz.com/employers/news?press_id=14
I'm not sure I can put this link as the name of the company is mentioned, so please delete this message if this is forbidden but really...
I know the news is not direc... See more Now I'm horrified :
Proz indirectly makes advertising for this wonderful agency and their wonderful subtitling online system :
http://www.proz.com/employers/news?press_id=14
I'm not sure I can put this link as the name of the company is mentioned, so please delete this message if this is forbidden but really...
I know the news is not directly about this outsourcer and that it was not the intention of Proz to advertise this company, but I find that really shocking... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sylvano
Local time: 23:04
Englisch > Französisch
| Let's voice our concern | Dec 7, 2006 |
I just wrote to Mike (see press release) about the 'unclear' policy of this mystery company we all know now...
I encourage all subtitlers here to do so.
[Edited at 2006-12-07 10:10]
| | | | | Our thinking on this as a "premium" opportunity | Dec 7, 2006 |
Hi all,
Sorry I missed this thread earlier. I'd like to explain why we allowed this project to be designated as a "premium opportunity"...
The issues raised here are issues that we took into consideration, and discussed among moderators, before designating the combination of Ashoka and dotSUB a "premium client" for the purposes of this project.
In my opinion, if this were a commercial project, "standard" job postings, not "premium" job postings, would have ... See more Hi all,
Sorry I missed this thread earlier. I'd like to explain why we allowed this project to be designated as a "premium opportunity"...
The issues raised here are issues that we took into consideration, and discussed among moderators, before designating the combination of Ashoka and dotSUB a "premium client" for the purposes of this project.
In my opinion, if this were a commercial project, "standard" job postings, not "premium" job postings, would have been appropriate.
However, I should point out that our job posting policies have for several years allowed registered non-profit and not-for-profit organizations to post projects that are not paid at all. In this case, the nature of Ashoka and the project were taken into consideration. See: http://www.ashoka.org/facts Ashoka is a not-for-profit organization.
Also, it can be considered that although dotSUB is a for-profit concern, it is a media company, not a translation company. In other words, this is not a company that sold a translation to a client and needs to get it done. This is a different type of project. In my experience, it is unusual that a project such as this is paid at all; if it had not been paid at all, I think that this discussion might not even have come up. But in this case, VISA stepped forward (brought in by dotSUB) to supply some funds.
In short, instead of high pay (or no pay), this opportunity offered *some* pay, and full recognition to those who take part--possibly broadly. It was understood before this was accepted as a premium job that subtitlers would be included in the credits. (I imagine that some who accepted the assignment also considered it worthwhile to be involved in this project for its own sake. That is something to be left to the individual; I don't consider it appropriate for us to pass judgment on the nature of the project here in the forums, so I won't comment further.)
I don't expect everyone to agree with the above line of reasoning. I post only so that you know the considerations that were made when we agreed to offer the use of the premium jobs system for this project.
Thanks for posting. ▲ Collapse
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