Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

Postwechsel

English translation:

postal money order

Added to glossary by Kaportnoy
Sep 13, 2017 16:16
6 yrs ago
German term

Postwechsel

German to English Social Sciences History 1870 letter
...haben wir beschlossen dir ein kleines Geschenk zukommen zu laßen bestehend in einem Postwechsel an die Adresse-- von der gemeinschaftlichen Summe von so 49-50

I am rather confused what Postwechsel means in this case, used like this with "bestehend". Any thoughts?
Change log

Sep 13, 2017 17:53: Murad AWAD changed "Field" from "Other" to "Social Sciences"

Discussion

Noelle Crist-See Sep 22, 2017:
15.11.2011, an excerpt from a protocol in Berlin "Frank: Eine Problematik für einen !!Postwechsel in das Büro!! für den Verein entsteht:
Die Vergabe der Plätze richtet sich !!nach der gemeldeten Postadresse!!. Der Sitz des Vereins bleibt: Im Zirkus, so das die Vergabe in Mitte vorgesehen werden kann."
Noelle Crist-See Sep 22, 2017:
In "Briefe 1819 - 1821) by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, "Postwechsel" is another name for "exchange of post": "Staatsrath Schulz hat sich bey mit angemeldet, mit Rauch, und sie wären schon hier, wenn der POSTWECHSEL zwischen Jena und Berlin nicht durch einen Umweg geschähe" (City! councillor Schult contacted me! with smoke (urgently), and they would be here already, if the post (letter) exchange between Jena and Berlin didn't have to take a detour to get here).
Noelle Crist-See Sep 22, 2017:
Old books that describe towns in Austria have "Postwechsel" as their term for post office. so I wouldn't put this in the books as a money order just yet.
Björn Vrooman Sep 16, 2017:
Hallo Johanna Weiß nicht so recht; abgezogen darf von dem Betrag glaube ich nichts, sondern du musst die "Gebühr" wie in deinem letzten Link extra entrichten.
Kann sein, dass der Briefeschreiber die genaue Summe einfach nicht weiß; deine Links hätten mich vermuten lassen, es ginge um einen internationalen Geldverkehr in der Art, wie wenn ich dir 50 EUR schicken würde und sage, da kommen ca. 72 bis 73 kanadische Dollar bei dir an (heutiger Stichtag).

Mir wäre es schlicht lieber gewesen, der Satz wäre zwei, drei Worte später abgeschnitten worden; das hätte u.U. schneller zu den Links geführt, die du rausgesucht hast (da die alten Wörterbücher nichts hergaben) und wir hätten die Diskussion verkürzen können.

Einen schönen Nachmittag!
Johanna Timm, PhD Sep 16, 2017:
49-50 ungenaue Angabe, weil die Gebühr vorher noch abgezogen wird (wie in meinem letzten Link)und der genaue Betrag, den die Empfänger dann tatsächlich erhalten, noch nicht klar ist.
Johanna Timm, PhD Sep 15, 2017:
Postwechsel „Zahlungen können durch Postwechsel, Coupons, Frankomarken, Kassenbillets .. beliebig geschehen.“
Neues Fremdenblatt, Wien, Montag, den 1. Mai 1871
http://tinyurl.com/y74a2t7k

“Seven-days and other Bills (Siebentagewechsel usw.) sind sieben-, mitunter auch zehntägige Akzepte der Bank, die früher, als die Verbindungen noch schlecht waren und ein Brief von London nach einer Provinzstadt oft eine Woche und mehr brauchte, statt Banknoten bei Sendungen, daher der Name „Postwechsel", gern verwendet wurden und auch noch heute von Geschäftsleuten zur Begleichung von Zahlungen gekauft werden.“
BANKEN UND BANKPOLITIK VON Dr GEORG OBST, Leipzig 1909


„Die Postanweisungen (Postwechsel) ereichen die Ziffer von ½ Million und bewerthen sich auf mehr als 12 Millionen Gulden”
http://tinyurl.com/ya8dz4n3

„Die Gebühr für Remittirung von Geld mittels Postwechsel beträgt 5 Cent für je 12-50 fl oder Theile von 12-50 fl. holländ.“
Archiv für Consularwesen, volkswirthschaftliche Gesetzgebung und Statistik Wien 1871
http://tinyurl.com/ybjao5hp
Björn Vrooman Sep 14, 2017:
Hello Thomas Not saying you couldn't be right, but there are two other things that caught my eye.

First, it's a gift. A "Wechsel(brief)" has been primarily used in business transactions; it's not impossible here, but it makes you wonder.

Second, the last bit says "von so 49-50": Have you ever signed off on a money order and left it to the mail guy to determine how much change the other person gets? This would either mean they're sending actual money and hadn't counted it up to the last coin or there's some currency exchange involved.

This is where the "vital piece of information" comes in: Kaportnoy cut off the sentence right before the currency info and we don't know who sent this letter to what location. Argh =)

Worst case? Just say "we sent you money," ha ha.

Best
Thomas Pfann Sep 14, 2017:
Doubts I was quite sure because (even after a fair bit of googling) this seemed to be the only interpretation to make sense. Now, however, I am not 100% sure anymore. Not sure what your interpretation is, Björn - how would you solve this?
Björn Vrooman Sep 13, 2017:
@herbalchemist I know what he's referring to, but that doesn't mean this is "exactly what it is" in this context. Additionally, I'm not sure how much sense a "Wechselbrief" makes. And the barrel they showed was from the 19th century, so the time period's right. You cannot tell from that half sentence what exactly is meant here. I'm also wondering why it says "an die Adresse" (and not "Empfänger").

As Thomas may recall, we've already had a vital piece of information missing in one of the last questions:
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_english/history/6385693...

He might have found it easier to agree with Ramey if he had known who the author of that line was (see discussion). I was merely too late to the party...
Herbmione Granger Sep 13, 2017:
@Björn I wouldn't mind receiving a barrel of cash.
Thomas is referring to a Wechsel(brief): https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wechsel_(Urkunde)
The only relevant modern instances of Postwechsel I've found are on sites in Italy. https://www.volksbank.it/de/service/news/detail/205.html
Björn Vrooman Sep 13, 2017:
@Thomas and Kaportnoy There is no such thing as a "Postwechselschein"--yes, I've googled it. Entries on "Postwechselbrief" are few and they all don't seem very enlightening. I find it a bit odd that you seem to be so sure about what it means in this context.

Additionally, even dictionaries going back further won't list a meaning like this, e.g.:
http://woerterbuchnetz.de/cgi-bin/WBNetz/wbgui_py?sigle=DWB&...

If at all, it should be "Postanweisung":
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postanweisung

Other sources from the 19th century will, in essence, only show either "by mail" or "mail station."

In Germany, they used to send coins in barrels by mail, a service that was in wide use. Incidentally, yesterday, we visited a fortress where they exhibited such a barrel.

It may mean that they sent money--not a piece of paper. You can find enough examples online, e.g.:
https://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Vertrag_zwischen_dem_Norddeut...
Kaportnoy (asker) Sep 13, 2017:
Ok great that's exactly what I was thinking but also couldn't find any type of Bestätigung. Thank you for the quick help!
Thomas Pfann Sep 13, 2017:
postal order, promissory note That's exactly what it is, Ted. Or a promissory note (not quite sure about the difference). Try searching "Postwechselschein" and "Postwechselbrief" for more details (as Ramey already said, "Postwechsel" mostly brings up hits about changing the horses).

And the "bestehend" refers to the "kleine Geschenk" (a present consisting of or in the form of)
Ramey Rieger (X) Sep 13, 2017:
Hi Ted That's more or less what I think. Postal order, but I couldn't find any worthwhile references.
Ted Wozniak Sep 13, 2017:
Just wondering if Wechsel here refers to a "bill of exchange", so in this case some kind of "postal money order". Not knowing the time period or more details, this is just a guess but the concept fits the context. :-)
Ramey Rieger (X) Sep 13, 2017:
Redeemable at the post office? Postwechsel is usually when they change horses http://www.zeno.org/Zeno/0/Suche?q=Postwechsel&k=Bibliothek

Proposed translations

+2
1 hr
Selected

postal money order

See above.
Peer comment(s):

agree philgoddard
2 hrs
agree Björn Vrooman : After discussing this with Thomas and Johanna, I'll agree. There aren't many sources to back up your hunch, but I believe you're correct (whether international or not is of no relevance here). In this letter, maybe "a money order we mailed to..."
4 days
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you!"
19 hrs

communication or letter exchange

There is really not enough information to go on, but if this is a real German partial sentence (the use of laßen instead of lassen leads me to doubt), the gift could be the letter exchange itself. (bestehend IN). Postwechsel is a frequent way of saying "I've mailed you, you've mailed me... It's a loong conversation over a period of time. Usually you would find a collection of letters between lovers. There are book compiling these things. Is this a sample of one???

..."We have decided to send you a small gift consisting of an exchange of letters to the Address of X. The total sum will be around 49-50...."

.haben wir beschlossen dir ein kleines Geschenk zukommen zu laßen bestehend in einem Postwechsel an die Adresse-- von der gemeinschaftlichen Summe von so 49-50
Example sentence:

..."We have decided to send you a small gift consisting of an exchange of letters to the Address of X. The total sum will be around 49-50...."

Something went wrong...
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search