| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Attacks on the agency/translator model by the platforms Thread poster: Eugenio Garcia-Salmones
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| Then check your eyesight Maria | Jan 15 |
Maria Laura Curzi wrote:
I still can't see any attack.
Offering low rates-low quality translations isn't something new, nor it didn't start in this millennium, it didn't start with Internet nor with the “big platforms.”
The whole range of market offers is wide, it has been like that since trade is known by humanity. That's how commerce works, so where's the attack to an agency/translator model?
Perhaps there's something more I'm missing to understand in the “these capitalists” wording?
Then check your eyesight Maria. This particular platform used was selling to its clients the use of its CAT, now it is trying to sell AI translations and at the same time it offers “human workflow” to companies and its CAT to translators and agencies to whom it tries to take away the work by selling AI translations in a retail and wholesale way. Now when one enters its website the first thing one sees is:
"One AI translation platform for content in any language"
Companies like GPT4, IBM, Clarifai,Deepl or Miscrosoft have invested a lot of money to take over the translation bussines and they are going to turn us into post-editors charging whatever they want, and that is because for the moment they need the human element, but they do not need intermediaries and the agencies that think that these tools are a panacea should be aware that those who own these systems can raise their prices at any time. This is called capitalism.
| | | | Edwin den Boer 
Netherlands
Local time: 07:52
Member (2009)
English to Dutch
| Smartcat is not very smart | Jan 15 |
I translated a few small jobs in Smartcat for a translation agency. It's the worst tool I ever used in terms of the number of false positives in the QA feature. And then it forces you to check off every warning. I don't see how even the magic of AI could make this company competent enough to replace translation agencies at a significant scale.
AI is a threat because end users are playing with ChatGPT etc. directly, not via translation platforms. The danger is that unlike traditional... See more I translated a few small jobs in Smartcat for a translation agency. It's the worst tool I ever used in terms of the number of false positives in the QA feature. And then it forces you to check off every warning. I don't see how even the magic of AI could make this company competent enough to replace translation agencies at a significant scale.
AI is a threat because end users are playing with ChatGPT etc. directly, not via translation platforms. The danger is that unlike traditional MT, LLM-based translations will appear fluent to users who don't speak the source language and can't check whether the translation is correct.
Disclosure of interest: publicly complaining about Smartcat helped me get a usability testing job from its competitor Crowdin. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Yes, I've used the platform | Jan 15 |
jparis wrote:
Zea_Mays wrote:
As said, agencies can use these platforms for classic translation management working with their own team, or direct clients can have their texts translated by anonymous people without knowing what the quality will be.
Maria Laura Curzi wrote:
Where's the alleged “attack” on agencies if agencies can use these big platforms as business partners?
Where's the alleged “attack” on translators if translators can use these big platforms as business providers?
Some of the platforms offer translation themselves through the "crowd" (= translators registered on the platform), allowing direct clients to upload their content and having it translated by random people (or AI + human review) at very low rates and therefore very low quality most of the times. I think that's the "attack" on agencies and the agency/translator relationship.
[Bearbeitet am 2025-01-14 15:06 GMT]
Smartcat is acting as a sort of translation agency/proz/freelancer platform.
I am interested to know if anyone has actually got any work through them and what sort of rates they pay. I am guessing very low. But if you are an agency, this could easily undercut you.
An agency I have done some work through tried using the platform to do AI translations, it does not say which AI it uses but most probably ChatGPT. The agency eventually figured they could just put texts through ChatGPT themselves for free and offer "AI translation" that way. It is only a matter of time before their clients make the same logical leap.
I have used the online platform twice on two projects coming from a British agency.
I worked on Smartcat platform as an online CAT tool with the files uploaded by the agency to the project drive. The agency allowed me access to the drive/files when I accepted the project; they set the rates, not Smartcat.
This British agency doesn't have its own CAT tool, so they use Smartcat as an online CAT tool partner, so they can track their projects' workflow and the translators working for them.
Regarding rates, as I previously said, the agency set the rates, and there wasn't any involvement of Smartcat on the rates whatsoever. The agency PM sent me the PO by email, and after I agreed/decided to work on it, they sent me the link to the protected files. I just logged in, accessed the files, and started to work online on the Smartcat platform. It was fast, easy, and smooth, as I didn't have to download anything or save anything as the work was saved in real-time while I was working.
From my experience, I can say that Smartcat platform IS NOT an AI platform at all. It's a CAT tool, like it was Wordfast Anywhere or like Phrase; these two I've used too. Never ever thought of them as “attacking” no model; on the contrary, they helped me get translation/proofreading/alignment projects to work on.
IMHO, the alleged “attack” is a hallucination, like the ones ChatGPT produces.
| | | | jparis (X)
Local time: 06:52
Russian to English
+ ...
| how much does smartcat pay | Jan 15 |
Edwin den Boer wrote:
I translated a few small jobs in Smartcat for a translation agency. It's the worst tool I ever used in terms of the number of false positives in the QA feature. And then it forces you to check off every warning. I don't see how even the magic of AI could make this company competent enough to replace translation agencies at a significant scale.
AI is a threat because end users are playing with ChatGPT etc. directly, not via translation platforms. The danger is that unlike traditional MT, LLM-based translations will appear fluent to users who don't speak the source language and can't check whether the translation is correct.
Disclosure of interest: publicly complaining about Smartcat helped me get a usability testing job from its competitor Crowdin.
I made an account on SmartCat to see out of interest what freelance "opportunities" it offered. I found only a handful of jobs from Russian to Chinese or English to Russian, nothing else. The pay was abysmal and you had to have a Russian or Belarusian bank account to apply
Has anyone done any work via Smartcat as a freelancer and how much did they pay?
Edwin, you are bang on the money here -- the threat is that users who don't speak the source are using ChatGPT and thinking that the translation is great because it is in "polished" grammatical English. I have witnessed even a person working at an agency (not a traditional agency, they do translation but mostly editing) who said that a Chat GPT translation from a language she does not know was "superb". This is the threat.
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| Trying to sell isn't an attack | Jan 15 |
Eugenio Garcia-Salmones wrote:
Maria Laura Curzi wrote:
I still can't see any attack.
Offering low rates-low quality translations isn't something new, nor it didn't start in this millennium, it didn't start with Internet nor with the “big platforms.”
The whole range of market offers is wide, it has been like that since trade is known by humanity. That's how commerce works, so where's the attack to an agency/translator model?
Perhaps there's something more I'm missing to understand in the “these capitalists” wording?
Then check your eyesight Maria. This particular platform used was selling to its clients the use of its CAT, now it is trying to sell AI translations and at the same time it offers “human workflow” to companies and its CAT to translators and agencies to whom it tries to take away the work by selling AI translations in a retail and wholesale way. Now when one enters its website the first thing one sees is:
"One AI translation platform for content in any language"
Companies like GPT4, IBM, Clarifai,Deepl or Miscrosoft have invested a lot of money to take over the translation bussines and they are going to turn us into post-editors charging whatever they want, and that is because for the moment they need the human element, but they do not need intermediaries and the agencies that think that these tools are a panacea should be aware that those who own these systems can raise their prices at any time. This is called capitalism.
Will quote you again:
Eugenio Garcia-Salmones wrote:
This particular platform used was selling... (...) now it is trying to sell AI translations and at the same time it offers “human workflow” to companies... (...)
Yes, they are “selling” and “trying to sell,” just like 99 % of the internet pages in every single corner of the whole big world. That's marketing; that's what the web is most used for; even social media (those giant “capitalists” everyone uses without complaining) are a huge marketing tool for SMEs worldwide.
So, where's the alleged attack?? I still can't see it.
On the other side, I see ideology very clear… perhaps the attack is hidden in there?
| | | | Johan Beyens
Belgium
Local time: 07:52
Member (2024)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Disclosure of interest: publicly complaining about Smartcat helped me get a usability testing job from its competitor Crowdin.
LOL
I've only had a brief look at Crowdin. I did not see a marketplace in there, but perhaps that part is closed off for free accounts. All I saw were "volunteer" projects. At least their CAT tool does seem to be better than Smartcat.
| | | | jparis (X)
Local time: 06:52
Russian to English
+ ...
| attack is probably the wrong choice of word | Jan 17 |
Maria Laura Curzi wrote:
So, where's the alleged attack?? I still can't see it.
On the other side, I see ideology very clear… perhaps the attack is hidden in there?
I think the argument is that companies like SmartCat are trying to undercut traditional translation agencies by offering another type of model that allows clients seeking translators to sign up, and use SmartCat's AI and/or freelance translators registered to the SmartCat site. The rates offered on SmartCat by the AI and the freelance translators are much less than the rates offered by mainstream (not the terrible Indian and Egyptian ones) translation agencies.
The argument is that this impacts on freelance translators who work through agencies, and the agencies themselves, because now, a client can get a cheaper translation via SmartCat rather than using an agency.
As you say Maria, this is capitalism at work. I agree with you that this is not an "attack." I would call it an "impact."
Offering lower rates for lower quality that many still consider "good enough" is capitalism. It does affect the translation industry. The industry is big so some are affected more than others, and in different ways. Those who are affected negatively might think this is a bad thing, the clients getting cheaper translations probably love it, and the people running SmartCat probably think it is great too.
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"From my experience, I can say that Smartcat platform IS NOT an AI platform at all. It's a CAT tool, like it was Wordfast Anywhere or like Phrase; these two I've used too. "
One of my biggest clients uses SmartCat. The price I get per word was agreed with the client, SmartCat has nothing to do with it. The Cat tool as such is very basic, but sufficient for most of the client's work. The advantage for me is that I don't have to make invoices for tiny jobs, payment is guaranteed by Sm... See more "From my experience, I can say that Smartcat platform IS NOT an AI platform at all. It's a CAT tool, like it was Wordfast Anywhere or like Phrase; these two I've used too. "
One of my biggest clients uses SmartCat. The price I get per word was agreed with the client, SmartCat has nothing to do with it. The Cat tool as such is very basic, but sufficient for most of the client's work. The advantage for me is that I don't have to make invoices for tiny jobs, payment is guaranteed by SmartCat and the payment terms are better than those of a lot of translation agencies. ▲ Collapse
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