Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
matière
English translation:
with substance
Added to glossary by
Anne Greaves
Apr 18, 2010 12:17
14 yrs ago
17 viewers *
French term
United Kingdom
matière
French to English
Other
Wine / Oenology / Viticulture
Website material
Hello,
I'm translating some website material for a wine estate. Not sure about the translation of matière in the following: substantial perhaps?
thanks
Anne
En bouche, gras, ample, matière, prometteur.
I'm translating some website material for a wine estate. Not sure about the translation of matière in the following: substantial perhaps?
thanks
Anne
En bouche, gras, ample, matière, prometteur.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 2 +1 | with substance |
Tony M
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| 4 | strong/heavy-bodied/substantial |
margaret caulfield
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| 3 +1 | full-bodied |
Mark Nathan
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| 4 | composition |
kashew
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| 4 | beautifully extracted |
eggsacion (X)
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| 2 | concentration |
Claire Nolan
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Proposed translations
+1
7 mins
Selected
with substance
I somehow feel thet the adjective sits a little awkwardly here, and I wonder if you could find a way to work it in something like this?
Note from asker:
| Yes, I agree thanks |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Evans (X)
: am working away, so I don't have my usual bible, Jancis Robinson's Oxford Companion, to hand, but I think this is on the right lines
19 hrs
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Thanks, Gilla!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks for your help on this one, Anne"
26 mins
margaret caulfield
Native in English
Works in field
Accurate, natural and very hard-working
Native in: English 
, Spanish
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish, French to English, and 3 more.
strong/heavy-bodied/substantial
Tony's input made me think. I've hunted through Google, but to no avail. From my own experience (yes... I did a course on wine-tasting, but here in Spain) I think it refers to being "heavy-bodied", but I decided to offer a few suggestions to let you have your pick, Anne. Maybe someone else can come up with something more "exact", although wine terminology is vast due to the incredible imagination of so many expert tasters.
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Note added at 26 mins (2010-04-18 12:44:00 GMT)
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I think they were born to be poets rather than experts on wine!
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Note added at 26 mins (2010-04-18 12:44:00 GMT)
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I think they were born to be poets rather than experts on wine!
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Tony M
: I certainly agree with your last comment ;-) Just wanted to add, though, not 'strong', which I think would be (for example) corsé; I also slightly fear that 'heavy-bodied' might be taken as a criticism...?
6 mins
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Well, "heavy-bodied" is actually a fairly comment term used for "full-bodied". That was my point when I mentioned the VAST amount of terms used to say the same thing.
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+1
50 mins
full-bodied
Smooth, generous, full-bodied and promising in the mouth.
I usually translate it as either substance or body ("plenty of...etc.").
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Note added at 1 hr (2010-04-18 14:17:00 GMT)
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The trouble is that tasting notes are a highly subjective business. Different tasters seem to have their favourite words and expressions, e.g. some are obsessed with "tenue" (another tricky one), and will not use other perfectly good adjectives! So I think there is licence to overlap...
I usually translate it as either substance or body ("plenty of...etc.").
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Note added at 1 hr (2010-04-18 14:17:00 GMT)
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The trouble is that tasting notes are a highly subjective business. Different tasters seem to have their favourite words and expressions, e.g. some are obsessed with "tenue" (another tricky one), and will not use other perfectly good adjectives! So I think there is licence to overlap...
Note from asker:
| Yes, I have been confused by terms that seem to overlap. I have seen corsé also translated as full bodied for instance. But your suggestion sounds very convincing |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Tony M
: One of my concerns would be that 'full-bodied' translates other terms, and sometimes you find both together... oops!
3 mins
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I know what you mean, but it seems like full-bodied has a role here...
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| neutral |
kashew
: GDT gives full-bodied as charpenté - so I reckon we home in on Tony's substance.
2 hrs
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gras is often used to suggest general richness, but I think technically is supposed to relate to the glycerol content: http://www.vitis.org/LEXIQUE.html
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| neutral |
eggsacion (X)
: "matière" is something quite specific, not a woolly, subjective term (extract, see my response and references)
7 hrs
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"matière" with no qualifier surely means "plenty of substances in the wine as a result of extraction", which, in the context of a web site for the general public (which is what I think we have here) could reasonably be translated as full-bodied.
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| agree |
Naomi Long
: In the context of the rest of the sentence here, full-bodied is accurate.
4153 days
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3 hrs
composition
The list is otherwise adjectives.
Example sentence:
Bouche bien structurée,fruitée, avec une matière riche et complexe, une tr-s grande bouteille de Bourgogne. vins-champagne.cdiscount.com/matiere-riche-complexe-bouteille-bourgogne.html -
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Mark Nathan
: agree that "matière" is a noun, but it does not mean "composition"; if you want to translate it as a noun you are back to Tony's "substance", literally the "substances in the wine as a result of extraction" (tannins, polyphenols etc.)
4 hrs
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Yes, I see that now, thanks.
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36 mins
concentration
4.5 An important component of balance - concentration
The concentration of a wine plays an important role in the overall balance of the wine. Wine is 80-90% water. The remaining 10-20% of the wine contains all the aromatic and taste components that make wine enjoyable to drink (the dry matter of the fruit). The closer the water content gets to 90%, the less "good stuff" (what the French call "matière", or matter) there is in the wine. A higher water content usually results from poor viticultural practices that emphasize quantity rather than quality. High yields = watery wine, lower yields = more concentrated wine. In a wine that is diluted, any small imbalance of tastes or sensations will be accentuated: a Chablis, for example, will seem more acid than usual, and a Chateauneuf-du-Pape even more alcoholic. This is not to say that a wine that has a good concentration of fruit will always be well-balanced, but concentration does play a mitigating role in the balance of a wine.
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Note added at 40 mins (2010-04-18 12:57:54 GMT)
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So let's try to see what sort of descriptors we can use to label fine wines. The words banded about include balance, complexity, length, concentration, focus, typicity, elegance and (even) power.
From the above it should be possible to arrive at a loose definition of 'fine wine': one that shows elegance matched with concentration and interest.
http://www.wineanorak.com/nickfine.htm
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Note added at 4 hrs (2010-04-18 16:34:31 GMT)
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Concentrated, not concentration (has to be an adjective to fit in this sentence).
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Note added at 4 hrs (2010-04-18 16:37:58 GMT)
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Spicy and complex, this superb wine is concentrated and delicious.
www.wineanorak.com/trhunter3.htm
Plush with soft, rich tannins, this wine is concentrated, round and luxurious with a long finish.
hubpages.com/hub/10-BEST-RED-WINES-UNDER-20
The wine is concentrated and multifaceted, seductive and complex. There is a great depth to this wine that is only beginning to reveal its layers.
www.quintessa.com/wine/
The concentration of a wine plays an important role in the overall balance of the wine. Wine is 80-90% water. The remaining 10-20% of the wine contains all the aromatic and taste components that make wine enjoyable to drink (the dry matter of the fruit). The closer the water content gets to 90%, the less "good stuff" (what the French call "matière", or matter) there is in the wine. A higher water content usually results from poor viticultural practices that emphasize quantity rather than quality. High yields = watery wine, lower yields = more concentrated wine. In a wine that is diluted, any small imbalance of tastes or sensations will be accentuated: a Chablis, for example, will seem more acid than usual, and a Chateauneuf-du-Pape even more alcoholic. This is not to say that a wine that has a good concentration of fruit will always be well-balanced, but concentration does play a mitigating role in the balance of a wine.
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Note added at 40 mins (2010-04-18 12:57:54 GMT)
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So let's try to see what sort of descriptors we can use to label fine wines. The words banded about include balance, complexity, length, concentration, focus, typicity, elegance and (even) power.
From the above it should be possible to arrive at a loose definition of 'fine wine': one that shows elegance matched with concentration and interest.
http://www.wineanorak.com/nickfine.htm
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Note added at 4 hrs (2010-04-18 16:34:31 GMT)
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Concentrated, not concentration (has to be an adjective to fit in this sentence).
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Note added at 4 hrs (2010-04-18 16:37:58 GMT)
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Spicy and complex, this superb wine is concentrated and delicious.
www.wineanorak.com/trhunter3.htm
Plush with soft, rich tannins, this wine is concentrated, round and luxurious with a long finish.
hubpages.com/hub/10-BEST-RED-WINES-UNDER-20
The wine is concentrated and multifaceted, seductive and complex. There is a great depth to this wine that is only beginning to reveal its layers.
www.quintessa.com/wine/
6 hrs
beautifully extracted
"Extract" is "everything in a wine besides water, sugar, alcohol, and acidity" (Robert Parker. "beautifully extracted" is a phrase I've come across more than once in wine descriptions (see link). Also "plenty of extraction"
It's actually referring to the stage where the red grapes macerate in the fermenting juice and the colour, tannin and flavour are extracted. How much and how well this has been done makes a wine "beautifully extracted" or not and contributes to its body and texture ("mouthfeel")
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Note added at 8 hrs (2010-04-18 20:30:18 GMT)
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ah, after that it's a question of style and how gushing you wish to be. Maybe simply "fine extract" or "good extract" or "well extracted" would do for this rather laconic text
It's actually referring to the stage where the red grapes macerate in the fermenting juice and the colour, tannin and flavour are extracted. How much and how well this has been done makes a wine "beautifully extracted" or not and contributes to its body and texture ("mouthfeel")
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Note added at 8 hrs (2010-04-18 20:30:18 GMT)
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ah, after that it's a question of style and how gushing you wish to be. Maybe simply "fine extract" or "good extract" or "well extracted" would do for this rather laconic text
Example sentence:
http://www.decanter.com/recommendations/subrecommendation.php?rid=665&sid=1899
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Mark Nathan
: interesting answer, and I would certainly agree that you cannot have "matière" without good extraction, but I do not think that that makes them the same thing. //I think we more or less agree...but from "matière" to "beautifully extracted" is quite a leap
1 hr
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"matière" is definitely extract in strict oenological terminology, see also http://www.thewinedoctor.com/glossary/e.shtml
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Discussion
Am no wine specialist, but "body" or "substance" springs to mind here...Would that work?