This site uses cookies.
Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site,
while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used.
For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
English translation: the Russian nation seen as the only true carrier of the Christian faith and values
13:14 Dec 16, 2022
English language (monolingual) [PRO] Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature / Classic novel, religion, philosophy
English term or phrase:god-bearing people
The term is in Dostoevsky's novel called Demons or The Devils, Part 2 Chapter 1 .
Every people is only a people so long as it has its own god and excludes all other gods on earth irreconcilably…. Such from the beginning of time has been the belief of all great nations, all, anyway, who have been specially remarkable, all who have been leaders of humanity…. The Jews lived only to await the coming of the true God and left the world the true God. The Greeks deified nature and bequeathed the idea of the State to the nations… If a great people does not believe that the truth is only to be found in itself alone (in itself alone and exclusively); if it does not believe that it alone is fit and destined to raise up and save all the rest by its truth, it would at once sink into being ethnographical material, and not a great people…. But there is only one truth, and therefore only a single out of the nations can have the true God, even though other nations may have great gods of their own. Only one nation is “god-bearing,” that’s the Russian people,
Explanation: Wiki: God-bearing people — the Russian nation, seen as the embodiment of spirituality and the Christian faith, carrying out the sacred task of defending all that is good and holy.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 7 mins (2022-12-16 13:22:42 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
This view is still held by many prominent Russians, including the current Russian president Putler [sic: Putin].
In the context of "The Devils," the word "bearing" in the phrase "god-bearing" is likely being used to mean "carrying" or "supporting." This usage of the word "bearing" is related to the idea of supporting or carrying something physical, such as a burden or load. In this case, the phrase "god-bearing" could be interpreted to mean that the Russians are a nation that carries or supports the divine, or that they are a nation that is spiritually strong and capable of upholding the values and ideals associated with God or the divine. It is important to note that the word "bearing" can have multiple meanings, depending on the context in which it is used. In other contexts, "bearing" might be used to mean "having a particular character or quality," as in "She has a calm bearing," or "having a particular relation or connection," as in "The two countries have a long-standing bearing of friendship." In these cases, the word "bearing" is not being used to mean "carrying" or "supporting" in the physical sense, but rather to describe an abstract quality or relationship.
But what specific lexical meaning does "god-bearing" have? Is 'bearing' the same word as in 'childbearing', or as in 'bear in one's arms'? The two meanings are quite distinct, you know. I'm asking for a linguistic, not philosophical/subjective answer.
In "The Devils," Fyodor Dostoyevsky refers to the Russians as a "god-bearing nation" in the context of a discussion about the role of religion and spirituality in Russian society. The phrase is meant to suggest that the Russians have a special spiritual destiny or mission, and that they are uniquely capable of understanding and expressing the divine. The phrase "god-bearing" could be interpreted in a number of different ways, depending on one's perspective and beliefs. Some might see it as a statement of faith, suggesting that the Russians are a chosen people with a special connection to God or the divine. Others might see it as a metaphor, suggesting that the Russians have a unique spiritual or moral strength or insight. Still others might see it as a cultural or historical observation, noting the prominent role that religion and spirituality have played in Russian culture and history. Ultimately, the meaning of the phrase "god-bearing" in "The Devils" will depend on the interpretation of the reader.
I took part in the current ChatGTP craze and fed it the original Asker's question. For those interested, I frames the question like this: 'Are you aware of Dostoyevsky and, specifically, his book "The Devils"? In this book he talks about the Russians as a 'god-bearing nation'. Can you interpret the term 'god-bearing'? What exactly might it mean?'
I have seen theophoric (teofórico) used in Portuguese translations of The Devils. However, I do not think that sits very well. Theophoric is usually used to refer to names that contain divine names, not to the idea of a racially inherent divine mission.
For example Theophilos and Apollodoros in Greek, and the multitude of examples in Hebrew, e.g. Yehonatan (God has given) and Netanyahu (God has given), which is the name of the elder brother of Israel's putative PM.
Indeed. The difference between 'god-bearing' and 'god-bearer' is entirely incidental and is down to the English translator's word choice. I may not have nine grandchildren, but I know my Dostoyevsky and know my Liturgy, and for "Богоносец" (NOT "Богородица"!) both use the Russian cognate of "theophoros", not "theotokos" (which would have been an insult to Theotokos proper).
Игнатий Богоносец, Theophoros The Hieromartyr Ignatius the God-Bearer, was a disciple of the holy Apostle and Evangelist John the Theologian, as was also Saint Polycarp, Bishop of Smyrna (February 23). Saint Ignatius was the second bishop of Antioch, and successor to Bishop Euodius, Apostle of the Seventy (September 7). https://www.oca.org/saints/lives/2021/12/20/103594-hieromart...
Thanks, Daryo for your advice. I had checked the original text and found that the term “god-bearing people” was translated from the Russian term “народ-богоносец”. But I wonder whether this term means “giving birth to God” or “supporting/sustaining the faith in God”.
It's actually "bearing" and not "fearing" (as it would be usually expected). Then we can discuss about the beauty of such English translation, but that's another matter. I don't know what the original Russian term was but the French ("Le seul peuple «déifère», c’est le peuple russe ") and English versions concur on this.
Hieromartyr Ignatius the God-Bearer, Bishop of Ant
15:12 Dec 17, 2022
Hieromartyr Ignatius the God-Bearer, Bishop of Antioch and NOT THE GOD-B E A R I N G people, meaning the people who have the true faith and orthodoxe christian principles. Dear Boris, it's never too late to learn, you are very young, and I am a grandmam of nine grandchildren; thus, you have to learn a whole lot more things in life in order to make corrections to me. Thank you very much for the communication. https://www.oca.org/saints/lives/2021/12/20/103594-hieromart... *God-bearer has nothing to do with the meaning of ''God-bearing''.
Like I said, 'tokos' is a false cognate that has nothing to do with 'phoros', the Greek word behind 'богоносец'/'God-bearer' (cf. st. Ignatius "the God-bearing"="Theophoros" of Antioch). Surely he didn't give birth to God, did he?
Beg your pardon? Why are *you*, of all people, saying that 'theotokos' has any relevance here? What, a whole nation giving birth to God?! That sounds preposterous and, more importantly, completely irrelevant to Dostoyevsky's use of the word.
If I was interested in the meaning of a translation, I would check the original text.
I'm not know about your specific text, but I remember vaguely reading that lots of Russian literature was translated by prolific translators taking shortcuts, that couldn't be bothered with nuances.
In practical terms, asking in the Russian/English pair seems to me like a better bet.
The status of Mary as Theotokos was a topic of theological dispute in the 4th and 5th centuries and was the subject of the decree of the Council of Ephesus of 431 to the effect that, in opposition to those who denied Mary the title Theotokos ("the one who gives birth to God") but called her Christotokos ("the one who gives birth to Christ"), Mary is Theotokos because her son Jesus is one person who is both God and man, divine and human.[8][9] This decree created the Nestorian Schism. Cyril of Alexandria wrote, "I am amazed that there are some who are entirely in doubt as to whether the holy Virgin should be called Theotokos or not. For if our Lord Jesus Christ is God, how is the holy Virgin who gave [Him] birth, not [Theotokos]?" (Epistle 1, to the monks of Egypt; PG 77:13B). But the argument of Nestorius was that divine and human natures of Christ were distinct, and while Mary is evidently the Christotokos (bearer of Christ), it could be misleading to describe her as the "bearer of God". At issue is the interpretation of the Incarnation, and the nature of the hypostatic union of Christ's human and divine natures between Christ's conception and birth.
The Church Slavonic translation is Bogoroditsa (Russian/Serbian/Bulgarian Богородица). The full title of Mary in Slavic Orthodox tradition is Прест҃а́ѧ влⷣчица на́ша бцⷣа и҆ прⷭ҇нод҃ва мр҃і́а (Russian Пресвятая Владычица наша Богородица и Приснодева Мария), from Greek Ὑπεραγία δέσποινα ἡμῶν Θεοτόκος καὶ ἀειπάρθενος Μαρία "Our Most Holy Lady Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary". German has the translation Gottesgebärerin (lit. "bearer of God").
That's right, I couldn't agree more with your completely accurate interpretation; Greek and Russian people are one and the same regarding our orthodoxy and the term "theotokos" - the Woman who gave birth to the god》theos: god, the verb "tikto": give birth 》bear: give birth, and the rest is quite understandable.
Pretty sure you got theotokos and theophoros mixed up. 'Phoros' is that you got in 'Christopher', and, naturally, has very little to do with giving birth (as in 'tokos'). So, a false cognate.
The equivalent Russian term appears often in the General Menaion (liturgy) of the Russian Orthodox Church. The equivalent Greek term is theotokos and is also used to describe the Virgin Mary as god-bearer, the mother of god.
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
5 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +6
the Russian nation seen as the only true carrier of the Christian faith and values
Explanation: Wiki: God-bearing people — the Russian nation, seen as the embodiment of spirituality and the Christian faith, carrying out the sacred task of defending all that is good and holy.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 7 mins (2022-12-16 13:22:42 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
This view is still held by many prominent Russians, including the current Russian president Putler [sic: Putin].
Darius Saczuk United States Local time: 14:50 Works in field Native speaker of: Polish, English PRO pts in category: 16
Grading comment
Thank a lot, Darius and everyone who made comments.
peer agreement (net): +6