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plaide d'abondant

English translation: (pleads) in addition

18:20 Dec 2, 2023
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / Third Pary Defence
French term or phrase: plaide d'abondant
En réplique aux allégations faites au paragraphe xx de la défense et la mise en cause, xxxx plaide d'abondant que :

In reply to the allegations made in paragraph xx of the Statement of Defence and the Third Party Claim, xxxx ... ?

I am unfamiliar with the use of "plaide d'abondant"

Thank you for any and all help.
cible
Canada
Local time: 10:54
English translation:(pleads) in addition
Explanation:
Plaider d'abondant is not a set expression, it's just the combination of plaider and d'abondant, an archaic expression:

"Vx. D'abondant, loc. adv. : « par surcroît » (mentionné par qq. dict., cf. hist.). [...] xiiies. d'abondant terme rhét. « de plus, en outre » (Joinville, St Louis, éd. Wailly, 465 ds Gdf. Compl. : Et il si firent, et d'abondant li envoierent tirez les os le conte Gautier de Brienne, pour mettre en terre benoite). Empr. au lat. abundans [ ... ] D'abondant, loc. adv. attestée dep. le xiiies. (cf. étymol. II 2) et très usitée jusqu'au xviies. (cf. 17 ex. ds Hug.),surtout dans la lang. jur.; dès lors son usage est controversé (cf. Brunot t. 3, pp. 13 et 356) et, bien qu'elle soit vieillie dep. la fin du xviies. (cf. Fur. 1690, Ac. 1694, etc.), elle paraît toujours dans la lexicogr. jusqu'à nos jours et peut être empl. (cf. Littré)."
https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/abondant



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Note added at 4 hrs (2023-12-02 22:42:10 GMT)
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I have taken note of the claim below that 'in addition' "changes the meaning to entry of a separate submission" and have looked at examples of usage of the term on the Ouèbbhe, finding ONE where plaide d'abondant is preceded by a first plaide, and several where it is not. I wonder how the term fits into the broader context of your document ...
Selected response from:

Bourth
France
Local time: 18:54
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3(pleads) in addition
Bourth
3 -1Pleading in the alternative
Yassine El Bouknify


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
Pleading in the alternative


Explanation:

https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english-to-italian/law-general/20...

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Note added at 20 minutos (2023-12-02 18:40:48 GMT)
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Alternative pleading
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english-to-spanish/law-general/19...

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Note added at 34 minutos (2023-12-02 18:54:45 GMT)
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It's more or less the same question
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/356...

Yassine El Bouknify
Morocco
Local time: 17:54
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: This has been both very interesting and helpful. Thank you!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Adrian MM.: 'pleads / does plead in the alt.' -> I like your last reference, except the other answer of further pleads is non-standard in Anglo-Am-CanE pleading practic/se // Don't worry about non-lawyer Mr. Ubiquitous whose agrees often spell the kiss of death.
2 hrs
disagree  philgoddard: Only your last reference is relevant, and it supports Bourth's answer, not yours.
2 hrs
disagree  Annette Fehr: This term doesn't exist in legal English.
3 days 16 hrs
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14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
(pleads) in addition


Explanation:
Plaider d'abondant is not a set expression, it's just the combination of plaider and d'abondant, an archaic expression:

"Vx. D'abondant, loc. adv. : « par surcroît » (mentionné par qq. dict., cf. hist.). [...] xiiies. d'abondant terme rhét. « de plus, en outre » (Joinville, St Louis, éd. Wailly, 465 ds Gdf. Compl. : Et il si firent, et d'abondant li envoierent tirez les os le conte Gautier de Brienne, pour mettre en terre benoite). Empr. au lat. abundans [ ... ] D'abondant, loc. adv. attestée dep. le xiiies. (cf. étymol. II 2) et très usitée jusqu'au xviies. (cf. 17 ex. ds Hug.),surtout dans la lang. jur.; dès lors son usage est controversé (cf. Brunot t. 3, pp. 13 et 356) et, bien qu'elle soit vieillie dep. la fin du xviies. (cf. Fur. 1690, Ac. 1694, etc.), elle paraît toujours dans la lexicogr. jusqu'à nos jours et peut être empl. (cf. Littré)."
https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/abondant



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2023-12-02 22:42:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I have taken note of the claim below that 'in addition' "changes the meaning to entry of a separate submission" and have looked at examples of usage of the term on the Ouèbbhe, finding ONE where plaide d'abondant is preceded by a first plaide, and several where it is not. I wonder how the term fits into the broader context of your document ...

Bourth
France
Local time: 18:54
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 42
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard: Or 'also pleads'.//There's no way of knowing, but it doesn't affect the translation.
1 hr
  -> Thanks. Is that an inclusive or separative 'also'? ;-)
neutral  Adrian MM.: > literally right, though out of line with Anglo-CanE legal drafting practic/se in both of which additional pleading means a separate amendment. Clearly, it isn't. https://www.formativelaw.ca/2020/07/amendment-of-pleadings-i...
2 hrs
  -> I don't see how you can say, with the few words we've been given, that "it clearly isn't". I don't know about Anglo-CanE legal drafting, but if you are to be believed it does not comply with Indian practice in the matter.
agree  AllegroTrans: Literal until proven otherwise; I would personally say "further pleads"
19 hrs
  -> I like it. I'd like to think that had I gone beyond establishing the meaning, I might have come up with it myself ;-)
agree  Annette Fehr: I agree with the meaning, but I also agree with Allegro that "further pleads" is more elegant and common in legal English.
3 days 16 hrs
  -> Thanks
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