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Rogando y con el mazo dando

English translation: cross in one hand, sword in the other

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase:Rogando y con el mazo dando
English translation:cross in one hand, sword in the other
Entered by: patinba

18:05 May 16, 2011
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Philosophy
Spanish term or phrase: Rogando y con el mazo dando
So...
Normally I would translate this as "God helps those who help themselves", or something of that ilk. However, in this case the author is using this expression in an atypical way (at least in my native English speaking opinion). And, to top it all off, he uses the hammer metaphor in the next sentence. I need some ideas for how to either translate this smoothly, or write a coherent translator's note. Here's the text:

Baste decir que se puede comparar el gesto de la guerra santa en el Islam y en el Cristianismo, diciendo que para los crusados cristianos (como recoge el dicho de ) consitió en blandir el mazo con una mano en tanto que la otra sostenía el rosario, mientras que para sus contrincantes,... el rosario parecía hacerse innecesario.


(This is a book on psychology/philosophy that is for a general, well-educated, audience.
Michele Minsuk
Local time: 08:10
cross in one hand, sword in the other
Explanation:
... followed by "swinging the sword in one hand while raising the cross with the other. Not literal, but within the bounds of artistic license?
"praise the Lord and pass the ammunition" is roughly what the Spanish A Dios rogando y con el mazo dando means. Your text explains it perfectly.
Selected response from:

patinba
Argentina
Local time: 12:10
Grading comment
Thank you! I think this is reasonable artistic license. I have chosen this translation because it maintains the weapon metaphor elegantly, is a set expression (which matters here since the author makes reference to a saying), and in my opinion fits the best with the theme. THank you, and all the others who answered, too.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3cross in one hand, sword in the other
patinba
4Kiss on the cheek, knife in the back
Lydia De Jorge
4take a "guns and butter" approach*
Jenni Lukac (X)
4Trust in God but keep your powder dry / Put your trust in God, but mind to keep your powder dry
Margarita Ezquerra (Smart Translators, S.L.)
3sugaring the pill
matt robinson
3"supplicating piously while swinging the mace for good measure" (in a two-faced gesture)
Bubo Coroman (X)


Discussion entries: 9





  

Answers


21 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
cross in one hand, sword in the other


Explanation:
... followed by "swinging the sword in one hand while raising the cross with the other. Not literal, but within the bounds of artistic license?
"praise the Lord and pass the ammunition" is roughly what the Spanish A Dios rogando y con el mazo dando means. Your text explains it perfectly.

patinba
Argentina
Local time: 12:10
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 29
Grading comment
Thank you! I think this is reasonable artistic license. I have chosen this translation because it maintains the weapon metaphor elegantly, is a set expression (which matters here since the author makes reference to a saying), and in my opinion fits the best with the theme. THank you, and all the others who answered, too.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Mariana Font
44 mins
  -> Gracias, Mariana!
agree  eski: Works for me! Saludos: eski in Acapulco ;))
2 hrs
  -> Thank-you again!
agree  David Ronder
4 hrs
  -> Thank-you!
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32 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Kiss on the cheek, knife in the back


Explanation:
Kiss on the cheek, knife in the back - Haaretz Daily Newspaper ...
Apr 24, 2008 ... Every Pollard, every Kadish, reinforces the national-religious label of Judas Iscariot, a kiss on the cheek and a knife in the back, and in ...
www.haaretz.com/.../kiss-on-the-cheek-knife-in-the-back-1.2... - Cached
►
Blog de cHaOs-ClOwN - "The end is nigh" - Skyrock.com
Jan 20, 2011 ... A kiss on the cheek and a knife in the back. My mind is too weak to win at blackjack. Sparkling animals make a beautiful sound ...
chaos-clown.skyrock.com/ - Cached
Songs about and inspired by my muse Sarah...and a few old things ...
Aug 10, 2010 ... a kiss on the cheek and a knife in the back and yet I just keep finding another reason to try a whole new approach, try a new tack ...
poetrypoem.com/cgi-bin/index.pl?poemnumber=730290...0...
TV Reviews - Yahoo! TV
Mar 10, 2011 ... I think what you & NBC did was tacty, and unprofessional, Talk about a kiss on the cheek,and a knife in the back,WOW! ...
tv.yahoo.com/user/cSn0J9n_jtSMJByh/reviews?self= - Cached
Pope pledges to end rift with Orthodox - Page 5 - Christian Forums
10 posts - 5 authors - Last post: May 30, 2005
Kiss on the Cheek and a knife in the back. "We will tell you how we love you, and the by using Uniates we will keep stealing your ...
www.christianforums.com/t1678891-5/ - Cached

Lydia De Jorge
United States
Local time: 10:10
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
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42 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
sugaring the pill


Explanation:
If the answer needs to be idiomatic, I can't think of anything nearer, although the 'pill' in this case could refer to those supporting the war/crusade or those on the receiving end (cultural imperialism, carrot and stick?)
If an idiomatic expression is not necessary a longer explanation may be a better solution.
Sugaring the pill only really works one way for me ( bad hidden/softened by good) and the sense of the original Spanish expression does not necessarily contain this idea.

matt robinson
Spain
Local time: 17:10
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks. I like this expression, but I think I need a weapon metaphor in this case, because of the larger context.

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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
take a "guns and butter" approach*


Explanation:
*You would have to consult the client on this switch, but it is the modern equivalent in English of the point she or she wants to put across. The "saying" what have to be an expression or approach, but it captures the essence of two radically different but simultaneous strategies.
Now defined economically as: guns and butter
a symbol for the economic policy of a government insofar as spending is allocated for either military or social purposes - however, during the Vietnam War era, it was used to describe the American approach to "winning the hearts and minds" of the Vietnamese, simultaneously napalming one village and building a hospital or providing employment or aid to another village. It might work here.

Jenni Lukac (X)
Local time: 17:10
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 40
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks, Jenni. This is definitely the type of feed back I was looking for, and an expression that had not occurred to me.

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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
"supplicating piously while swinging the mace for good measure" (in a two-faced gesture)


Explanation:
a mace was a club which knights in armour (i.e. the Crusaders) carried to bludgeon opponents in hand-to-hand combat.

I added "for good measure" to bring in the irony of the Crusaders' two-faced approach to their religious faith. Their opponents the Muslims, on the other hand, were not hypocritical.

Bubo Coroman (X)
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 52
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15 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Trust in God but keep your powder dry / Put your trust in God, but mind to keep your powder dry


Explanation:
Resultados de la búsquedaPut your trust in God, and keep your powder dry: Information from ... - [ Traducir esta página ]Cromwell‥when his troops were about crossing a river‥concluded an address‥with these words—'put your trust in God; but mind to keep your powder dry.' ...
www.answers.com › ... › Religion & Spirituality - En caché - SimilaresOliver Cromwell - Wikiquote - [ Traducir esta página ]14 Mar 2011 ... Put your trust in God, but keep your powder dry. Variant: Trust in God, and keep your powder dry. Actual quotation: "Put your trust in God, ...
en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Oliver_Cromwell - En caché - SimilaresKeep your powder dry - [ Traducir esta página ]Keep your powder dry - the meaning and origin of this saying. ... with these words - 'put your trust in God; but mind to keep your powder dry'." ...
www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/217500.html - En caché - SimilaresUrban Dictionary: Trust in God but keep your powder dry - [ Traducir esta página ]1.Fight like a man,this is a crucial moment,A question of life and death,no matter what may come,You have to face the situation.Depend on your weap...
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?... Trust%20in%20God%20but%20keep%20your%2... - En caché - Similares


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Resultados de la búsquedaa Dios rogando y con el mazo dando - significado de a Dios rogando ...a Dios rogando y con el mazo dando put your trust in God but keep your powder dry. a Dios rogando y con el mazo dando aide-toi et le ciel t'aidera ...
es.thefreedictionary.com/a+Dios+rogando+y+con+el+mazo+dando - En caché - Similares

Dios English Spanish Translation | Traductor ingles español¡Válgame Dios -> bless me; A Dios rogando y con el mazo dando -> trust in God but keep your powder dry; Vaya con Dios -> goodbye. , ¡Válgate Dios!, God ...
www.spanishdict.com/translate/Dios - En caché


PDF] "A Dios rogando y con el mazo dando", monopolio de la violencia y ...Formato de archivo: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
(«Trust in God but keep your powder dry»: monopoly of .... «A Dios rogando y con el mazo dando»: monopolio de la violencia y conflicto político en la última ...
www.euskomedia.org/PDFAnlt/vasconia/vas26/26191208.pdf - Similares

Margarita Ezquerra (Smart Translators, S.L.)
Spain
Local time: 17:10
Native speaker of: Spanish
PRO pts in category: 8
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